How do you make money out of cattle?

[Guiggs]

my thoughts would be if you need to ask there is not much chance, you have to enjoy working with cattle to have any hope.

I enjoy working with cattle although I only have a small number of them,I also work full time elsewhere that's why I'm asking, I want /need them to pay for themselves at the very least!!

 

[marshfarmer]

I enjoy working with cattle although I only have a small number of them,I also work full time elsewhere that's why I'm asking, I want /need them to pay for themselves at the very least!!

Im sure we all want them to pay for themselves

New title how can I loose the least money with cattle.

 

[Guiggs]

Im sure we all want them to pay for themselves

New title how can I loose the least money with cattle.

Surely it's not that bad?
Why are people still keeping them in such numbers then?
As I've said I only have small numbers and am no way an expert but to date mine have cost grazing at £75/acre and a few really poor bales of hay, admittedly in the next week or so they will be wormed and start feeding better silage and concs to the bullocks/ heifers and hay to cows but we're not talking silly money on the out goings!!

 

[Poorbuthappy]

2k on 100 cows Ive had much worse luck than that

Can't argue with that!

But even if you allow £10k of the 'profit' from the above figures for losses, I could live off £10k wages + £10k profit for a part time job. That's not reckoning sfp into the equation.

I was going to say why doesn't it work out like that in practice, but perhaps it does for more established farmers.
Starting from scratch and a large mortgage don't help

 

[marshfarmer]

Surely it's not that bad?
Why are people still keeping them in such numbers then?
As I've said I only have small numbers and am no way an expert but to date mine have cost grazing at £75/acre and a few really poor bales of hay, admittedly in the next week or so they will be wormed and start feeding better silage and concs to the bullocks/ heifers and hay to cows but we're not talking silly money on the out goings!!

The only advice I can give if you are starting keeping breeding cattle from scratch is start with a few best quality you can afford and hi health, and try to keep it that way, expanding as I have done by buying any old thing, then meeting disease problem is no good. Im either going to just finish cattle or try for a high value ped herd, I cant do both on the same holding.

 

[marshfarmer]

Can't argue with that!

But even if you allow £10k of the 'profit' from the above figures for losses, I could live off £10k wages + £10k profit for a part time job. That's not reckoning sfp into the equation.

I was going to say why doesn't it work out like that in practice, but perhaps it does for more established farmers.
Starting from scratch and a large mortgage don't help

Agreed but 100 cows all progeny to finish on say a 24month system and a poor set up can be quite time consuming, with not enough money coming in to improve infrastructure?

 

[Gulli]

Surely it's not that bad?
Why are people still keeping them in such numbers then?
As I've said I only have small numbers and am no way an expert but to date mine have cost grazing at £75/acre and a few really poor bales of hay, admittedly in the next week or so they will be wormed and start feeding better silage and concs to the bullocks/ heifers and hay to cows but we're not talking silly money on the out goings!!

Not that bad if you can market them yourself either selling breeding stock privately or meat in box schemes I don't think

We make enough from what we do that we can have an alright living, outside jobs as well, its all a bit complicated in our situation but we can afford to feed ourselves

 

[gone up the hill]

So even taking Guth's high costs of keeping a cow, there's potentially a £20k profit there on a 100 cow herd, which is of course only a part time job for 1 man. That's on top of wages for the work done. So potentially I could pocket £30k as a 1 man operator of a 100 cow herd.
I appreciate some reinvestment may have to come out of that, though I suspect Guth's machinery costs may cover depreciation too.

My cost's are about right for many Sucker herds in the SW.. ( give or take £50/ head )

I have costed it at contractors rates for machinery ( ie : if you paid a contractor to cut/ baling / hauling straw etc ) so the money you save by doing the work yourself v paying a contractor could be used for reinvestment.

Edit : my costing's are for 2013, haven't done this years yet but I would expect them to be slightly lower to take into account higher yields of grass/ straw this harvest.

 

[gone up the hill]

Surely it's not that bad?
Why are people still keeping them in such numbers then?
As I've said I only have small numbers and am no way an expert but to date mine have cost grazing at £75/acre and a few really poor bales of hay, admittedly in the next week or so they will be wormed and start feeding better silage and concs to the bullocks/ heifers and hay to cows but we're not talking silly money on the out goings!!

Yep but you are not including a labour figure/ fixed costs etc etc which all full time suckler farmers will have to do..

 

[CharcoalWally]

Quality, there really is no substitute for good stocksmanship.

Would agree strongly.

You can waffle on all day about figures and scores but if someone somewhere doesn't get off his/her arse , leave the house and go and do the work to make the job come together , then nothing will come of anything.

Human input and individual initiative count for so much in this job. Where @west coast angus is farming will be some of the toughest terrain on this forum , so that crop of calves at that trade is a good years work.

Farming for your climate and environment , rather than using breeds that work against it , and using cattle breeds that can cope with what the weather can throw at them take you a long way.

For me , that's component parts of stocksmanship.

 

[sheepwise]

Can't argue with that!

But even if you allow £10k of the 'profit' from the above figures for losses, I could live off £10k wages + £10k profit for a part time job. That's not reckoning sfp into the equation.

I was going to say why doesn't it work out like that in practice, but perhaps it does for more established farmers.
Starting from scratch and a large mortgage don't help

There is also the calf scheme money to add to your bottom line.

 

[gone up the hill]

There is also the calf scheme money to add to your bottom line.

You don't get that this side of the border....

 

[Hilly]

View attachment 82936 For us up here, the best way is selling char calves straight of there mum, calf april may, sell sept smaller ones oct, cows out wintered on hill graze the fields in the summer!

That's the way to sell cattle ! none of that pissing about 1 at a time.

 

[sheepwise]

That's the way to sell cattle ! none of that pissing about 1 at a time.

And also the way to buy them.

 

[Hilly]

And also the way to buy them.

I agree

 

[sheepwise]

You don't get that this side of the border....

But PBH was talking about West Coast Angus's returns.

 

[gone up the hill]

But PBH was talking about West Coast Angus's returns.

Oh right, I thought he was talking about Suckler cow profitability in general.

 

[bobk]

I reckon it costs me £660/ head to keep a suckler cow if I costed it properly ( ie all labour/ housing/ deadstock/ grasskeep etc etc .. last year I bought a hell of a lot of decent contx steer stirks and they averaged £555/ head... this year I reckon it will be nearer £590 by Dec 31st...

Suckler cows are fine if you can out winter them cheaply on Kale/ root crops/ moorland etc and are in a Tb free area...

Best way to make money with sucklers is to .......... stick em on a mountain and let them get on with it.

 

[bobk]

View attachment 82936 For us up here, the best way is selling char calves straight of there mum, calf april may, sell sept smaller ones oct, cows out wintered on hill graze the fields in the summer!

Bet they made good money , perfect types, not this mollycoddled fancy crap.

 

[DRC]

Rear other people's dairy heifers.
No capital outlay or risk of losses, and monthly cash flow.