How high is too high

[unlacedgecko]

I don’t know lads. I think lamb as a product just ain’t being marketed right. The difference between what factories are paying farmers for beef and lamb is only around €1 / £1 a kilo. Who’s ever making the money out of it ain’t the farmer.

Tesco lamb mince £8/kg

Tesco beef mince £5/kg

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I dont see people getting any richer anytime soon. Chicken and beef arent going anywere so we need to at least try and compete somehow dont we? If we want to continue being sheep farmers we need someone to eat it no? If they cant afford to eat it what esle will will we do with it? Sell at a loss for a year or two to try and gain some ground again
I dont know what the amswer is. Hell im not even sure i know exactly what my question is

Don't worry.. now there's a kiwi involved it won't matter a jot
It doesn't really matter what they pay, there will be a bunch of farmers who will make a bit of money and a bunch who raise their costs to match any gains made.. you can't help them if they can't!
For sure our methods are much different but it's the ewe and lambing cost that is a major factor, not just getting the lambs to fat (which usually seems to be the primary focus) in my belief.
Niths' leicester thread is a good example of looking in the wrong place for value - smacks of the Samsung Note 7 - features don't matter if it explodes in your handbag

 

[Gulli]

Good idea.
We need eating quality EBVs for that and for the processors to start paying for eating quality instead of confirmation. I dont know how they would do that though. I think NZ possibly Australia are starting something along those lines?

There was some articles floating around a while back about genomics and eating quality genes etc.
Would take someone more knowledgeable than me to post the actual facts though.

No one seems to know the actual answers or like you say the right questions! Sheep farmers all have their opinions and it rare that they are all along the same lines apart from 'something' must be done.

Not sure that's any help from me mind

 

[andybk]

Lamb can’t hang around at £70-80 forever, costs are rising, sooner or later £100 a lamb will have to be the norm

quite agree , how much was petrol in the 70s ? a tradesman , a house , a car , the list is endless , how they all shouted when spuds were dear (5 or more years ago ) all the chippies had notices up that chips had to go up in price because they were short , didnt notice them coming back down following year , Problem is lamb price has been on the floor for decades (kept down by a strong £ and imports of horse meat to pad out the pies , its going to hurt when it does go up , dont ever feel guilty , they wouldnt bat an eyelid to charge you up given the chance , the real bugbear is inputs will probably go up as elanco etc milk it out of us , then what next year when imports push the price back down again

 

[Northeastfarmer]

quite agree , how much was petrol in the 70s ? a tradesman , a house , a car , the list is endless , how they all shouted when spuds were dear (5 or more years ago ) all the chippies had notices up that chips had to go up in price because they were short , didnt notice them coming back down following year , Problem is lamb price has been on the floor for decades (kept down by a strong £ and imports of horse meat to pad out the pies , its going to hurt when it does go up , dont ever feel guilty , they wouldnt bat an eyelid to charge you up given the chance , the real bugbear is inputs will probably go up as elanco etc milk it out of us , then what next year when imports push the price back down again

The only guilt I feel when I’m selling Hoggs for £120 is that I don’t have another 100000 to sell

 

[unlacedgecko]

There was some articles floating around a while back about genomics and eating quality genes etc.
Would take someone more knowledgeable than me to post the actual facts though.

No one seems to know the actual answers or like you say the right questions! Sheep farmers all have their opinions and it rare that they are all along the same lines apart from 'something' must be done.

Not sure that's any help from me mind

I suspect the thing to be done is have a lot less sheep farmers. Larger flocks of self replacing low input females with higher ewe-labour unit ratios.

If you want to compete with chicken you've got to rear them like chicken - have thousands and cull anything which isn't perfect.

 

[neilo]

Surely in order to improve eating quality, you have to understand what factors of the animal's life & death have an impact on how it tastes? I know that since I started keeping sheep and eating my own I will never go back to supermarket lamb ever because it has so little flavour. My sheep graze on mixed herbal leys, are a slow growing breed and are hung for at least 7 days and they taste bloody marvellous. Compare that to a commercial fast growing breed grazed on single species rye grass (and possibly grains), which is then hung for maybe 2 days ...no thanks, not for me.

The idea of selection for intramuscular fat using CT scanning and ebvs, is to produce that extra flavour that some of the slower growing breeds have, but in an animal that actually grows fast enough to pay the bills.

 

[Gulli]

I suspect the thing to be done is have a lot less sheep farmers. Larger flocks of self replacing low input females with higher ewe-labour unit ratios.

If you want to compete with chicken you've got to rear them like chicken - have thousands and cull anything which isn't perfect.

Or go the other way and have a lot less sheep producing much more consistent carcasses

 

[GTB]

The only guilt I feel when I’m selling Hoggs for £120 is that I don’t have another 100000 to sell

So you've already sold 100000? Lucky bugger!

 

[Nithsdale]

I suspect the thing to be done is have a lot less sheep farmers. Larger flocks of self replacing low input females with higher ewe-labour unit ratios.

If you want to compete with chicken you've got to rear them like chicken - have thousands and cull anything which isn't perfect.

It's getting enough land at a decent price to make it viable.

The land is there, but it's all owned by others who seem to either have different ideas or are just plain greedy in their rates/rents

 

[Northeastfarmer]

So you've already sold 100000? Lucky bugger!

Only this month

 

[polk_farmer]

It's getting enough land at a decent price to make it viable.

The land is there, but it's all owned by others who seem to either have different ideas or are just plain greedy in their rates/rents

Same down here, couldn't be done where I am, between digester crops, spuds, bulbs and dairy farmers the rents are way above the sheep league

 

[beefandsleep]

Same down here, couldn't be done where I am, between digester crops, spuds, bulbs and dairy farmers the rents are way above the sheep league

To be fair, in NZ sheep can’t compete on the better land so why expect it ever to be different? It’s not greed, it’s what’s the most productive use of the land.

 

[polk_farmer]

To be fair, in NZ sheep can’t compete on the better land so why expect it ever to be different? It’s not greed, it’s what’s the most productive use of the land.

Yea I know that, its never going to happen, difference is, that if we could spread fert, etc with planes on our sheep ground, ie, National parks. Make them grow abit more grass, we would be on more of an even keel with NZ. But that's never going to happen either.

 

[hillman]

Lamb needs to be seen as a health food not a chicken/pork competitor!

I've always banged on here and always falls on deaf ears that on the likes of legs or shoulders they should be either 3/4 recipes printed on the packaging or cards at shelves to show the other recipe options especially quick and easy sub 20 minutes for the busy weekly household, also bit of advertising telling folk your getting 2/3 meals for the price of one ??!!

Only snag get folk back to Cook at the weekends

 

[unlacedgecko]

To be fair, in NZ sheep can’t compete on the better land so why expect it ever to be different? It’s not greed, it’s what’s the most productive use of the land.

IIRC @Nithsdale Farmer pays £100/acre for grass parks. There's no other option but sheep/beef in them. I just don't see how that can pay tbh.

 

[Nithsdale]

Lamb needs to be seen as a health food not a chicken/pork competitor!

I've always banged on here and always falls on deaf ears that on the likes of legs or shoulders they should be either 3/4 recipes printed on the packaging or cards at shelves to show the other recipe options especially quick and easy sub 20 minutes for the busy weekly household, also bit of advertising telling folk your getting 2/3 meals for the price of one ??!!

Only snag get folk back to Cook at the weekends

With the raise in popularity of slow cookers, lamb/mutton should be right at the front of people's minds... we (the industry) is missing a massive trick.

 

[beefandsleep]

IIRC @Nithsdale Farmer pays £100/acre for grass parks. There's no other option but sheep/beef in them. I just don't see how that can pay tbh.

With the greatest of respect and I know some will think I’m being a di ck, if £100/acre is not profitable then don’t pay it. Rents are what people will pay.

 

[GTB]

IIRC @Nithsdale Farmer pays £100/acre for grass parks. There's no other option but sheep/beef in them. I just don't see how that can pay tbh.

Plenty of people paying that around here too. Obviously it doesn't pay for itself at that price but there are other things to add into the equasion such as reduced stocking rates on home ground meaning stock do better, being able to grow more silage (maybe not on the let land but it frees up land at home), reduction in bought in feed and ferts.... Many around here have hill land in enviro schemes and rather than reduce stock they're keeping the same amount but letting extra (better) land in.

 

[Nithsdale]

IIRC @Nithsdale Farmer pays £100/acre for grass parks. There's no other option but sheep/beef in them. I just don't see how that can pay tbh.

no I don't! Must be someone else your thinking of?

My grass parks are creeping up though... IMO I pay well over the odds for it - compared to what the land was like in year 1 (after being properly farmed), but the owner/agent sees it differently and keep asking for more - but wont spend a single £ on the place i only pay what I do because it marches with me and without it is struggle to have what I do at home.