How long will Jim Moseley last at Red Tractor?

[Grass And Grain]

Seemingly at Co-op she got experience of hiring and firing people. Obviously thinks staff need firing if they're not doing a good job.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I was informed by my trader a Gatekeeper analysis is a 29 page report and costs £1500. Sounds like tosh protecting RT and making its cost look rather pleasing... maybe its true and it is that dear... maybe ten farms or twenty could combine samples for Gatekeeper... be a very good way weasel out those that fail us if you had an independant retest.

Jim and Christine have so much sh!t falling from their trousers they may be encrusted to the chair or incapable of standing up to stand down... I'd be unsurprised if it hasn't set solid and they sink with "dignity" incapable of leaving the sinking ship.

Why would we need a gatekeeper report? The merchant can come and see the farm if they want. What is gatekeeper bringing to the party?

 

[Grass And Grain]

Why would we need a gatekeeper report? The merchant can come and see the farm if they want. What is gatekeeper bringing to the party?

Does beg the question what's wrong with making all your records available to the merchant/mill, and welcoming them to visit your grain store/facilities. Could AIC find any reason to disallow that?

These mills seem content with their ability to purchase non-assured imports, so why not ours as well.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Does beg the question what's wrong with making all your records available to the merchant/mill, and welcoming them to visit your grain store/facilities. Could AIC find any reason to disallow that?

These mills seem content with their ability to purchase non-assured imports, so why not ours as well.

To what extent does a merchant/ mill rely on supplied paperwork?
They don't accept grain just because you've signed to say its dry and clean do they?
If they need to do some testing to check the legality/ quality of grain anyway, why does the supplier need to test at all?

 

[Grass And Grain]

To what extent does a merchant/ mill rely on supplied paperwork?
They don't accept grain just because you've signed to say its dry and clean do they?
If they need to do some testing to check the legality/ quality of grain anyway, why does the supplier need to test at all?

Funnily enough, within the main Gatekeeper scheme called EFISC-GTP, which is a little bit like the UK TASCC merchant/haulier scheme but also has the rules about assuring grain with lab tests, there is a little loophole.

In the loophole, there is no need for the grain to be lab tested by the shipper to get its "assured" status. This is as long as the destination mill has an entry check programme. In other words, the mill has a sampling spear and some testing facilities.

It's totally up to the mill what tests it does. So moisture, bushel, foreign objects and bugs/weevils would be perfectly OK. They've to tailor checks based on history e.g. if they know it's a bad mycotoxin year then the may decide to test for mycotoxins, but that's about the extent of it.

So basically the UK mill can purchase totally non-assured grain if it's imported. Only thing which is assured is the transport.

 

[ajd132]

Not exactly on the side of farmers is he.

How many times do we need to tell him, we're sick of having extra and unnecessary RT standards/costs put on us, while we watch imports infiltrate the same supermarket shelf.

The pig headedness and dancing to supermarkets' tune will be his downfall imho. And Tacon. She said about the GFC "not if, but when" after all the farmers were up in arms about it.

No farmers = end of Red Tractor. Are Moseley and Tacon running the company responsibly? Doesn't look like it from where I'm sat. We need fresh faces who understand farming.

Tacon in her tenure so far has come across a lot worse to me than Jim. From Jim I get kind of useful idiot vibes but not particularly dangerous, something about Tacon is much more ambitious and ruthless.

 

[britt]

He also said he welcomed competition in assurance schemes, and also agreed Gatekeeper should be available for UK grain.

If RT wanted to keep their assessors in a job, instead of auditing our annual NSTS test, they could get up the heap, take a sample, send to the lab and give us our Gatekeeper certificate. Can't see it should cost any more than £50/farm.

They don't even need to do that.
Merchants always take on farm samples for testing before they buy grain, so that sample could be tested for whatever they need to know.
No need for assurance at all.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Tacon in her tenure so far has come across a lot worse to me than Jim. From Jim I get kind of useful idiot vibes but not particularly dangerous, something about Tacon is much more ambitious and ruthless.

Jim's job is to make Red Tractor successful. He does a pretty decent job of explaining how good RT is, promoting the scheme etc.

Just think that if he/she (although she's the chair, so more her??) don't appease the farmers then they'll have no scheme at all if NFU pull out. They're risking the whole of Red Tractor.

 

[Grass And Grain]

They don't even need to do that.
Merchants always take on farm samples for testing before they buy grain, so that sample could be tested for whatever they need to know.
No need for assurance at all.

Yes, the merchant is welcome to take samples, and could have a glance over store/facilities while they're there, even look at your pesticide records if they like.

It's probably what they used to do subconsciously. If they could see a farm had poor cleanliness, pigeons in the grain store, history of sending damp grain etc. then they could walk away and not purchase. Just like any commercial agreement, it's self policing. Do a good job supplying high quality produce and the buyer comes back next year.

This suggests assurance schemes are just a money making racket and a way to control us. There's no secret that NFU like RT because it means they can ensure NRoSO has guaranteed uptake and urea is policed.

 

[graham mc]

Yes, the merchant is welcome to take samples, and could have a glance over store/facilities while they're there, even look at your pesticide records if they like.

that would cost them so its a none starter while were paying for inspections its fine tho

 

[Rnold]

Last week I attended an event where the speakers were Christine Tacon CBE, Susan Jebb OBE (chair of FSA) and the CEO of the World wide fund for nature, Tanya Steel CBE.

You would never have known, to hear them speak, that there was an issue in assurance land. The jugganaut is ploughing on regardless and we are a long way off blowing them of course.

They are entrenched and it will take a lot more than a bit of shell fire to drive them out.

 

[SilliamWhale]

They don't even need to do that.
Merchants always take on farm samples for testing before they buy grain, so that sample could be tested for whatever they need to know.
No need for assurance at all.

Or you if you have a good relationship with your merchant they don't even do that.

 

[An Gof]

I can think of another, besides Tacon and Moseley, who must be on the list to go

 

[An Gof]

We need to dig down and understand the reasons why AIC reject UK Gatekeeper.

I suppose they're getting a nice juicy RT standard for free, but my hunch is the merchants (particularly a farmer owned one with orange logo) only want to deal with a single assurance standard and different schemes will make life too difficult for them. That's understandable reasoning, but it shouldn't stop alternatives to RT being available to the farmer.

Can bet your bottom dollar any potential UK Gatekeeper scheme will be made unworkable. £1,000 lab test for each commodity on each farm, and they wouldn't want us to blend samples from 60 farms so we can't spread cost of the lab tests.

In reality, a much simpler self-assured passport would be probably better for us farmers, accompanied by a 36 monthly check by your local authority. It's near as dam it equivalent to the Red Tractor scheme, but without paying a private company for the honour of selling your grain.

We'll get there. Or at least we'll get something better than we've got now.

Think the farmer owned merchant with the orange logo has its own problems at the moment as it continues to lose market share.

 

[britt]

Or you if you have a good relationship with your merchant they don't even do that.

Only grow milling wheat here, so you both need to know exactly what you've got to market it correctly, and they need a DON and ZON test anyway.

 

[Barleymow]

Only grow milling wheat here, so you both need to know exactly what you've got to market it correctly, and they need a DON and ZON test anyway.

Only milling here 2 merchant does Don and zon when sampling , was happy taking non assured wheat with borrowed stickers

 

[MrNoo]

Only milling here 2 merchant does Don and zon when sampling , was happy taking non assured wheat with borrowed stickers

Yes, it happens. But when you've got a heap of Grade 1 milling sat there, needs must.

 

[DrDunc]

Dead man walking

But the retailers will help him make the path a long perambulation

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

So basically the UK mill can purchase totally non-assured grain if it's imported. Only thing which is assured is the transport

We know they do that all the time with imports.

 

[Bury the Trash]