How many suckler cows to farm without subsidies??

[Bossfarmer]

i see a lot of the smaller herds disappearing and a surprising number of herds up over 400 cows now is this the scale businesses now need to be at if farm support goes? what are everyones thoughts? personally i think businesses will need to have a turnover of 500k minimum and be hitting current top 10% performance figures to stay viable, not much to a dairy farmer but a challenge to the suckler situation

 

[mezz]

i see a lot of the smaller herds disappearing and a surprising number of herds up over 400 cows now is this the scale businesses now need to be at if farm support goes? what are everyones thoughts? personally i think businesses will need to have a turnover of 500k minimum and be hitting current top 10% performance figures to stay viable, not much to a dairy farmer but a challenge to the suckler situation

Much more important to be in the top 10% of performance than any particular size. At 400 cows you will probably be relying on hired labour,so losing money if below average performance. If you have 50 cows in the top 10%, plenty of growth opportunities will probably coming your way over the next decade.

 

[DrWazzock]

3

 

[Bossfarmer]

Much more important to be in the top 10% of performance than any particular size. At 400 cows you will probably be relying on hired labour,so losing money if below average performance. If you have 50 cows in the top 10%, plenty of growth opportunities will probably coming your way over the next decade.

i agree technical performance needs to be there at any scale but theres only so much you can make with 50 cows and living costs, car, mortgages, holidays plus all the farm costs etc will need to be covered by cows once support goes

 

[teslacoils]

3

-3 perhaps.

 

[le bon paysan]

Who has got the popcorn?

 

[Bossfarmer]

3

mabye if theyre pedigree

 

[milkloss]

Let's be honest: there's not going to be any money to be made unless your business has other income income such as rent, off farm job etc.

for a farm primarily and only growing cows I doubt it'll be worth it financially.

 

[chipchap]

Suckler cows are a dead loss, the more you have the more you lose.

The whole red meat industry is in serious jeopardy without BPS

 

[Henarar]

i see a lot of the smaller herds disappearing and a surprising number of herds up over 400 cows now is this the scale businesses now need to be at if farm support goes? what are everyones thoughts? personally i think businesses will need to have a turnover of 500k minimum and be hitting current top 10% performance figures to stay viable, not much to a dairy farmer but a challenge to the suckler situation

Better not more

 

[DrWazzock]

So many different scenarios and variables it’s impossible to say.
Do they fit in to an integrated system, geography, local market for stores etc?
I am sure they still have a future.
For me twenty would still work that’s if I wanted the work. Small enough not to need expensive kit, or be too big a risk, useful muck, eat up byproducts and part loads, use a bit of straw, eat reject horse hay.
Then again large scale justifies the overheads and more kit, employment of specialists etc.
I think they still have a good future. Stores always seem “dear” to me and as long as it runs smoothly with easy calving and lowish inputs which they seem to thrive on then can’t see it’s any worse than any other sector to be honest.

 

[Werzle]

i see a lot of the smaller herds disappearing and a surprising number of herds up over 400 cows now is this the scale businesses now need to be at if farm support goes? what are everyones thoughts? personally i think businesses will need to have a turnover of 500k minimum and be hitting current top 10% performance figures to stay viable, not much to a dairy farmer but a challenge to the suckler situation

You would probably need a few staff with 400+ so why not keep a few less and save the wages. A few hundred sucklers can be looked after with a basic stockman loader tractor and a few basic implements. Dont become a salesmans dream , keep it simple and basic.

 

[Ashtree]

Larry says you should have 1,000 cows, so he can screw your ass to the floor!

 

[chipchap]

The upland and less favoured areas of the UK depend upon red meat and BPS to generate income and maintain fragile economies.
These areas will fall into serious decline economically without some form of aid. They can’t all run holiday enterprises.

 

[DrWazzock]

And surely fields of low input grassland with sucklers should fit into ELMS very well? Nothing did more for insects, voles, birds etc here and Ed a sympathetic way to farm slopes and more difficult land.

 

[chipchap]

And surely fields of low input grassland with sucklers should fit into ELMS very well? Nothing did more for insects, voles, birds etc here and Ed a sympathetic way to farm slopes and more difficult land.

But will ELMS actually generate extra income, or just be compensation for potential income lost? We will see.

 

[milkloss]

And surely fields of low input grassland with sucklers should fit into ELMS very well? Nothing did more for insects, voles, birds etc here and Ed a sympathetic way to farm slopes and more difficult land.

You'd hope so! But I wouldn't go counting your chickens as well as making excuses to justify keeping them.

 

[beefandsleep]

I think this very much depends on how extensive the system and what resources the farm has. As an add on to a lowland arable enterprise where they are used to graze uncropable areas and the straw is effectively the cost of baling and carting then sucklers can’t fail to make money. At the other end of the scale as the only enterprise, with a long winter and all straw bought in they can’t fail to lose unless large numbers to spread overheads. There are probably only a few situations or farms that can be profitable with cows as the only enterprise, those that can out winter on sand or good lowland farms that can have high stocking rates, but why would they not do something more profitable with the land?

 

[Werzle]

The upland and less favoured areas of the UK depend upon red meat and BPS to generate income and maintain fragile economies.
These areas will fall into serious decline economically without some form of aid. They can’t all run holiday enterprises.

I think the demand for rural holidays is far bigger than you think and with better prices for less stock and some environmental top up payments people will be able to do well

 

[steveR]

Suckler cows are a dead loss, the more you have the more you lose.

The whole red meat industry is in serious jeopardy without BPS

I agree, the Sucklers we keep are more of a low cost hobby. But useful for tidying up awkward areas of the farm and nice to have about.

I suspect the latter point will be the REAL reason they are still on many farms. You need zero borrowings and low cost to see much out of a SC, and that has always been the case I believe.

Knew an old boy from Bridgnorth way, long dead now, but he emigrated to Canada in the early 60s. I remember him saying to me that Sucklers were for the Landed classes...and to find the workmen something to do in Winter. My old chap who was a specialised Ag accountant from the early 1950's would say much the same...