How much do you pay?!

[Derrick Hughes]

Could you show me some figures that show any kind of income from renting ground at £190/ac for farming sheep?

@RyanI , for balance, I was offered a small parcel of adjoining land by my landlord 2 years ago. It was about 6ac, fenced into 5 paddocks, which I could have opened the gate to graze.
He asked for £100/ac, I laughed for a ridiculously long time, then offered him half that, purely to keep other people’s (potentially scabby) sheep away.

Needless to say, some other daft bugger (the land hungry neighbour on the other side) has taken it anyway. Good luck to him and his vanity, he sure as hell isn’t making any profit from it.

that was silage 4 cuts ,
But rough grazing land would not be far behind around here
If someone offerd grazing ground around here for less than £100 acre for 12 month , well let's just say he best turn his phone off

 

[neilo]

Sounds ridiculous, but ultimately would love to run a few hundred, enough where I could reduce my hours where I am now. Realistically will never happen so any form of working with sheep I’ll be happy.

You really need to do some costings, before you think about expanding.

If you want to run a hobby flock then crack on regardless of what we say about rental value.
If you want the flock to make enough money to wipe it’s face, let alone make up for doing less of your day job, then do some serious number crunching. What you’re paying is ridiculous for the latter. Even £200/ac/yr is way beyond what sheep can return imo.

 

[neilo]

that was silage 4 cuts ,
But rough grazing land would not be far behind around here
If someone offerd grazing ground around here for less than £100 acre for 12 month , well let's just say he best turn his phone off

Regardless, running sheep on it at those levels will p*ss money up the wall, until there’s none left to p*ss anyway.

 

[BAF]

5 acre patch by us, weed free but roughish grazing, fenced but only natural water which dries up in the summer. I offered £100/acre/Yr because it was an extremely handy spot for me and I could have chucked some young horses on it all winter and saved my own ground. They laughed at me. I think it went for £300/acre/Yr to some idiots! It was worth £100/acre to me because it was effectively opening 2 gates but I couldn't justify any more than that even with someone else's money!

 

[Al R]

Regardless, running sheep on it at those levels will p*ss money up the wall, until there’s none left to p*ss anyway.

Competing against dairy, arable and veg doesn’t help down here though. Winter tack for 6 months is £50/acre. I’ve got some on headache rates and others on acre rates and all work out around the same figure within a few quid… and that is paying nowhere near £1/week either..

 

[RyanI]

You really need to do some costings, before you think about expanding.

If you want to run a hobby flock then crack on regardless of what we say about rental value.
If you want the flock to make enough money to wipe its face, let alone make up for doing less of your day job, then do some serious number crunching. What you’re paying is ridiculous for the latter. Even £200/ac/yr is way beyond what sheep can return imo.

And that’s all it is at the moment Neil, a hobby flock. The fact I’ve been asking around and wanted to do this for years I do pay the price, because to me at the moment it’s worth it. Going forward and expanding, you’re exactly right and I simply could not sustain it financially. Hence why I am gathering information so when an opportunity comes up I do have more knowledge. Coming from a none farming background at all puts you on the back foot.

 

[Wink]

Show the landlord this thread and come to a more realistic arrangement with them on what your paying before you fall out of love with what your doing. When I started doing what your doing I paid a max of £30/acre per year if it was fenced and watered for the small parcels you're talking about, in the hope of moving on to bigger, better grazing plots that could justify more. Most of them were free to keep the grass down and perhaps a gesture given in return eg meat. Location and the travel involved obviously plays a part in this, as does the quality of grazing. I hope that the advice given so far by others helps you to negotiate a better price or move elsewhere to continue what you enjoy and to grow it. All the best.

 

[mwj]

Show the landlord this thread and come to a more realistic arrangement with them on what your paying before you fall out of love with what your doing. When I started doing what your doing I paid a max of £30/acre per year if it was fenced and watered for the small parcels you're talking about, in the hope of moving on to bigger, better grazing plots that could justify more. Most of them were free to keep the grass down and perhaps a gesture given in return eg meat. Location and the travel involved obviously plays a part in this, as does the quality of grazing. I hope that the advice given so far by others helps you to negotiate a better price or move elsewhere to continue what you enjoy and to grow it. All the best.

If you have no other place for your stock, you are not in a position to negotiate new terms!

 

[twizzel]

We have a few blocks of ground locally for grazing/mowing, primarily to keep the ground tidy, we will trim hedges if required and give them beef/lamb and something nice at Christmas but no money exchanges hands.

 

[Jonp]

When I rented my small 70acre farm I offered £50/acre/year, the landlord nearly had a heart attack. He wanted over &100. Settled on £70 as old rushy pp, no mains water (summer drying streams) and fences that either didn't exist, couldn't be found in the overgrown hedges or were just full of holes.
£70 might sound cheap but given the above it's not. Been brutal at times trying to sort it out/keep stock in and has cost a lot in time, money and energy.
However it's mostly sorted now so probably worth the effort but even now paying that rent and running a small flock of 140 ewes doesn't leave a lot of profit....there are a great deal of expensive mistakes and unthought of costs that whittle that down inexorably.
As others have said above, try and work for sheep farmers, gain knowledge and hopefully you'll get a bit of luck renting ground through them.
That's what I did 10 years ago when I bought 15 ewes and borrowed a tup.
Good luck

 

[RyanI]

Show the landlord this thread and come to a more realistic arrangement with them on what your paying before you fall out of love with what your doing. When I started doing what your doing I paid a max of £30/acre per year if it was fenced and watered for the small parcels you're talking about, in the hope of moving on to bigger, better grazing plots that could justify more. Most of them were free to keep the grass down and perhaps a gesture given in return eg meat. Location and the travel involved obviously plays a part in this, as does the quality of grazing. I hope that the advice given so far by others helps you to negotiate a better price or move elsewhere to continue what you enjoy and to grow it. All the best.

Thanks for the message.

 

[Wink]

If you have no other place for your stock, you are not in a position to negotiate new terms!

Sure, but theres paying top rents for the privelage and something that's completely unsustainable. Only the stock keeper can determine whether it's worth it, even if it's just a sideline/hobby. And it would suggest that a realistic rent wasn't perhaps understood by both the landlord and the tenant when they set out?

 

[Estate fencing.]

The problem here people are quoting prices for established farms, the landlord needs to charge horse stile rents due to risk of the place becoming a shanty town shite hole and sick poorly managed sheep when the tenant decides they want another hobby.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

One reason I’ve asked the question is because when I do try an expand I have an idea what to be paying. The landlord now, has nothing to do with farming or agriculture in fact. Just a local guy with a couple of fields. I took it at the price because getting into sheep is something I’ve always wanted to do and for someone who isn’t fortunate enough to be born into it I took what I could. This is the first patch of land (not to be mopped up by farmers) I’ve seen in a lot of years in my local area.

Hi, we're on the different side of everything down here but I charge our neighbour $1/week for his sheep grazing.
He manages them, I send out an invoice when he gets paid for his lambs in a month or two.

Yes it's cheap grazing.
Yes it's nice to help him out.
Yes it's nice to buy myself a couple of years while we get reticulated water into the paddocks he's using.

But, that's why we don't charge him a per acre rate, nothing down here is done on a per acre basis besides lease agreements and purchasing.

Your 15 sheep would cost 15x52 = $780 = £400 per year at that rate

 

[Henarar]

Hi, we're on the different side of everything down here but I charge our neighbour $1/week for his sheep grazing.
He manages them, I send out an invoice when he gets paid for his lambs in a month or two.

Yes it's cheap grazing.
Yes it's nice to help him out.
Yes it's nice to buy myself a couple of years while we get reticulated water into the paddocks he's using.

But, that's why we don't charge him a per acre rate, nothing down here is done on a per acre basis besides lease agreements and purchasing.

Your 15 sheep would cost 15x52 = $780 = £400 per year at that rate

Ewes 35p/week, autumn/ winter grazing

 

[Derrick Hughes]

But he's getting one hell of an eduction,
You can't put a value on that

 

[Tamar]

To answer your question, a very good price would be £200 acre yesr ,if I was renting out. , the dearest I've heard of around here is £190 acre year

But you are in Wales and not NE England.............. and probably have dairy farmers competing for every acre.


@RyanI, you are paying well over the top. To even think you are going to make any money in the job at taht rent isn'r going to happen.

If the landlord is taking the payments, then realistically the rent should be anything from free to £50 acre.
Most areas have some rich people with big houses and a few acres, that like people like you that will graze the grass. They can then pretend to their friends that they are proper farmers without even getting their wellies on !! Those bits of land will be free as it's cheaper than the payed gardener to mow it.

I rent several hundred acres. The most I pay is £100 / acre but I claim all the CSS and BPS payments that actually covers more than the rent.

Good luck with your sheep enterprise............just do the maths and make sure your heart doesn't rule your head.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

But you are in Wales and not NE England.............. and probably have dairy farmers competing for every acre.


@RyanI, you are paying well over the top. To even think you are going to make any money in the job at taht rent isn'r going to happen.

If the landlord is taking the payments, then realistically the rent should be anything from free to £50 acre.
Most areas have some rich people with big houses and a few acres, that like people like you that will graze the grass. They can then pretend to their friends that they are proper farmers without even getting their wellies on !! Those bits of land will be free as it's cheaper than the payed gardener to mow it.

I rent several hundred acres. The most I pay is £100 / acre but I claim all the CSS and BPS payments that actually covers more than the rent.

Good luck with your sheep enterprise............just do the maths and make sure your heart doesn't rule your head.

I've heard of the English paying over £300 for Maize ground

 

[JD-Kid]

Hi, we're on the different side of everything down here but I charge our neighbour $1/week for his sheep grazing.
He manages them, I send out an invoice when he gets paid for his lambs in a month or two.

Yes it's cheap grazing.
Yes it's nice to help him out.
Yes it's nice to buy myself a couple of years while we get reticulated water into the paddocks he's using.

But, that's why we don't charge him a per acre rate, nothing down here is done on a per acre basis besides lease agreements and purchasing.

Your 15 sheep would cost 15x52 = $780 = £400 per year at that rate

a buck a week is cheep we pay just on 2 bucks summer grazing and close to 3 dollars a week on winter crop only thing I have to do is drench fly treatment etc all other stuff done by the lady looking after them moving them check them fix water problems etc etc

 

[Kiwi Pete]

a buck a week is cheep we pay just on 2 bucks summer grazing and close to 3 dollars a week on winter crop only thing I have to do is drench fly treatment etc all other stuff done by the lady looking after them moving them check them fix water problems etc etc

Yep, I am far from interested in dealing with them! But it is nice to bring in some money in the meantime