How much more dangerous is farming than the average industrial job?

[Bury the Trash]

forgot to add, anyway, should be doing that job on flat ground where the tractor wont move anyway or lay out railways sleepers/ blocks /chocks to stop it exactly in the same place every time.


#Simple stuff makes a difference #think about what you're doing #its not rocket science

 

[Blaithin]

Yes It was.
well that and lack of wisdom /thought.
if the hand brake wont hold then switch the engine off and leave the tractor in (low) gear, reverse gear even. then it will stop where you put it.

and of course Just because the tractor s old doesn't mean to say the handbrake cant be rebuilt.

I might be older but Im wiser and cooler, than when i was 18, 25, 35 ........

Aged is not a reason for more chance of trouble..

No. You’re being judgmental.

Complacency is the issue. Practically everyone on here is exposing how they’re complacent. It’s never happened to them, because they’re safe. It’s never happened to them, because they’re experienced.

Experience doesn’t keep you safe. However it can limit severity. Thanks for asking, she was fine. Why? Because she wears 8”, steel toe boots and knows to rest the bucket on the ground so the bucket contacted the leather and had no real push power.

Hindsight brings up lots of other things that could be done, but you don’t know something is going to fail until it fails.

 

[Bury the Trash]

No. You’re being judgmental.

Far from it.
but You can think that if you like but my intent is to show Someone what to do to prevent what could happen .

Because i have been in those 'places'and plenty of others myself over the years as most of us have i guess.

 

[Blaithin]

Far from it.
but You can think that if you like but my intent is to show Someone what to do to prevent what could happen .

Because i have been in those 'places'and plenty of others myself over the years as most of us have i guess.

Like I said, hind-site is 20/20

Most accidents are people doing things that they know better but do it anyway because it should be fine, it’s been fine a hundred times before. Like they say, never stick your fingers where you wouldn’t stick your dick, but how many men are missing fingers?

It’s easy for you to say what she should have been doing but it wasn’t you doing 15 loads a day for months. You’re not going to realistically chock the wheels every time you get out, nor do you shut diesel engines off here in winter just for a couple minutes.

What was done was they installed mineral bins with electric augers and buttons we could reach from the feed truck so it eliminated the risk with the loader.

 

[kiwi pom]

Yes It was.
well that and lack of wisdom /thought.
if the hand brake wont hold then switch the engine off and leave the tractor in (low) gear, reverse gear even. then it will stop where you put it.

and of course Just because the tractor s old doesn't mean to say the handbrake cant be rebuilt.

I might be older but Im wiser and cooler, than when i was 18, 25, 35 ........

Aged is not a reason for more chance of trouble..

I agree having the ability to see what can happen is very helpful. I've always been very aware of the dangers of exiting a vehicle and then standing in front of it and relying on a handbrake or electrical circuit to save me because of a story about a local being killed that way.
I have several gruesome stories that pop into my head when I'm performing certain tasks.
It's why I'm a big believer in accidents being made public and the chain of events leading up to it being explained in detail.
Lack of imagination kills people. The loader above should not have dodgy brakes, but it was relying on them that caused the problem. On the other hand, the cell phone in the pocket was a good idea and potentially saved the day.

 

[TelesnaAg]

Id love to see farmers reaction to stand down criteria on equipment .

Park brakes being one, they actually require testing under ISO 3450, so if youbhave an accident bad the prosecutor will come at you with this.

The excuse of no money...your defence team will never let you use that because as it will likely increase sentence or fine.

It also leaves the door wide open for prosecutor to expose your priorities on safety.

Ive done alot of incident investigations in mining and 99% of the time theres always leading indicators, rarely is there actually and accident.

Ant...

 

[Dave645]

Like is said there is zero statistical evidence to show that lone workers are killed or injured more often than non lone workers.

Not very logical.
young lad new to the job, what’s better he gets one to one training doing the new jobs, or a quick explanation and left to it.
Staisticly those getting proper supervision and not lone working will have less risk of making bad choices, due to inexperience, that risk personal injury including minor ones.
That is also true of any job that involves complex knowledge, even basic servicing has risks that only experience or training can educate workers about. Who has hurt there hand servicing old machinery just from a spanner on a rusted bolt.
This is loan worker statistics, training is king experience is king, statistically a lone worker that’s had little to no experience or training is statistically more likely to be injured, and I have done lots of jobs safely that would had been safer and simpler to do with help.
while a lot can be done safely on your own that’s never to say that they would be safer and simpler with 2 or more people.
A sole driver can do tractor work for 16 hours per day 7 days a week but satisticly they are more likely to have an accident that 2 drivers doing 8 hours each to do the same amount of work.
This is why lorry drivers have hour limits as tiredness becomes a factor. So even perfectly safe operations become prone to accidents due to lone workers trying to do to much.
And money is the factor that often stops that second worker helping out because who wants work that only exists for 2 months a year, so money stops the farmer employing a full time worker so they are there for those few weeks that they are essential. Helpful for 3 months and a drain for 8 months.
The reality is I would love an on tap worker that employing a full time worker would bring, but the reality is long term costs and farm incomes don’t support them. So that drives difficult choices and problems where to find trained experienced workers that want to be casual. And are available when I need them. This is why accidents and injuries are high on farms. As relatively untrained workers are asked to do lone work often relying on them to see the dangers they may have be told about but have never seen, or experienced.
Lone working is essential and will never stop. But that’s not to say that’s the best solution for every job on a farm or even the safest solution.
If your working more than 12 hours per day lone then statistics says your more prone to accidents.
Tiredness kills that is a very well known fact.

 

[[email protected] L]

Its not anymore dangerous than many physical jobs, Ag has poor risk management hence giving it the tag as "dangerous".

If minesite safety standards were applied to Ag, hairdressing would be more dangerous.

Ant...

Complete nonsense. The machinery and the conditions of work plus the unpredictable nature of some of the animals makes it far more risky. Not many Bulls running around a shop floor now is there. Not many time's folk need to work out in the snow and rain on High altitude or muddy conditions. So many more skills with Agriculture that need to be learnt than the vast majority of other jobs and one other factor is that mostly a farmer is on his own so when something goes wrong there's no one there to help.

 

[TelesnaAg]

Complete nonsense. The machinery and the conditions of work plus the unpredictable nature of some of the animals makes it far more risky. Not many Bulls running around a shop floor now is there. Not many time's folk need to work out in the snow and rain on High altitude or muddy conditions. So many more skills with Agriculture that need to be learnt than the vast majority of other jobs and one other factor is that mostly a farmer is on his own so when something goes wrong there's no one there to help.

Aw cmon mate you being a bit nit picky, i was talking real physical jobs, you know like mining, construction, processing, manufacturing real big sh*t, any job where there's a conveyer belt or wood chipper, they catch a few out. the real job
jobs.

Agreed in ag you need wide skill set, but i work in mining, and the amount information i have to remember is insane.

Many jobs at a certain level will keep your brain full these days.

Ant...

 

[Bury the Trash]

Like I said, hind-site is 20/20

(With Presence of mind) Experience turns (or 'can turn' if its remembered respectfully ,intelligently and above all honestly applied/ and allowed to) Hindsight into Foresight

Most accidents are people doing things that they know better

I would agree. Teaching inexperienced of the job people of the dangers is key there, good comunication skills will be needed to get the message fully across i guess.

Like they say, never stick your fingers where you wouldn’t stick your dick, but how many men are missing fingers?

as above perhaps the best teacher is one that "has lost a finger " literally or metaphorically speaking .?

It’s easy for you to say what she should have been doing but it wasn’t you doing 15 loads a day for months. You’re not going to realistically chock the wheels every time you get out,

No getting off chocking because The solid object would be in place so that it is an immovable dead stop (sleeper with a couple of pegs driven ben hind in to hold in place ) to the wheels which would also make for easier lining up of perfect positioning for the operation to take place safely and efficiently for repeated use , even with a good hand brake .

nor do you shut diesel engines off here in winter just for a couple minutes.

That Handbrake needs fixing , easier said than done i know i have a couple to sort out / adjust which im happy to do myself when o have the time to allocate , and for me using a mechanic / repair shop would be far far more cost than i can do it for and i would check on /do other things at the time as well. Its our tractors , i like to see first hand what's going on underneath so to speak.

What was done was they installed mineral bins with electric augers and buttons we could reach from the feed truck so it eliminated the risk with the loader.

Good that's sorted the cause not the symptom but with respect to the above .


If i can help someone to improve something as fundamental as safety i will try to.

 

[roscoe erf]

We had this earlier in the thread. Agriculture has less deaths than Construction in the UK, but per 100 workers the rate is 4 times higher. Therefore, it is more dangerous. Not sure how you can conclude it isn't.

See figures below.

View attachment 1125162

View attachment 1125163

so we just need to employ more people

 

[Bury the Trash]

Complete nonsense. The machinery and the conditions of work plus the unpredictable nature of some of the animals makes it far more risky. Not many Bulls running around a shop floor now is there. Not many time's folk need to work out in the snow and rain on High altitude or muddy conditions. So many more skills with Agriculture that need to be learnt than the vast majority of other jobs and one other factor is that mostly a farmer is on his own so when something goes wrong there's no one there to help.

Yes Livestock can be very unpredictable and at times not trustworthy at all, they will kill you or try to and not be at all bothered about it. From memory it has been a cause of fatalities around here , Also responsible for fatalities over the years would be tractor overturns, we have a lot of dangerously steep land in Devon which can catch out even the most experienced drivers. Within that category is other vehicle's on the public highway causing a tractor / trailer to be 'derailed ' even flashing beacons don't always stop that .

 

[Barleymow]

There's a video somewhere of someone falling off combine just last year IIRC

And they're not that old either

 

[Blaithin]

(With Presence of mind) Experience turns (or 'can turn' if its remembered respectfully ,intelligently and above all honestly applied/ and allowed to) Hindsight into Foresight

I would agree. Teaching inexperienced of the job people of the dangers is key there, good comunication skills will be needed to get the message fully across i guess.

as above perhaps the best teacher is one that "has lost a finger " literally or metaphorically speaking .?


No getting off chocking because The solid object would be in place so that it is an immovable dead stop (sleeper with a couple of pegs driven ben hind in to hold in place ) to the wheels which would also make for easier lining up of perfect positioning for the operation to take place safely and efficiently for repeated use , even with a good hand brake .

That Handbrake needs fixing , easier said than done i know i have a couple to sort out / adjust which im happy to do myself when o have the time to allocate , and for me using a mechanic / repair shop would be far far more cost than i can do it for and i would check on /do other things at the time as well. Its our tractors , i like to see first hand what's going on underneath so to speak.

Good that's sorted the cause not the symptom but with respect to the above .


If i can help someone to improve something as fundamental as safety i will try to.

You must be great fun at farm tours then. Walking around telling them they need anchors to tie their tractors and loaders to in case their brakes fail.

I’m used to over the top safety ideas, and that one is ranking right up there with keep emergency food handy at work in case we’re stuck in the basement for three days due to a tornado.

Safety has the rope to walk of being efficient, but realistic. If the employees aren’t going to do it, it doesn’t matter if it will solve all problems. If a person is going to propose and implement safety methods, they need some presence of mind for how the people in the situation are going to react and execute the job.

And when at all possible the best safety is sorting the cause, not the symptom. In the triangle I posted, that’s why engineering is the top response to concern. Remove the hazard, nobody gets hurt on it anymore. Why pee around addressing symptoms when you can remove the hazard completely. On a risk assessment it took it from a 5+ to a 0. This is, however, where Clive’s money claim will come into play. Many safety improvements are little to no cost, but when you start engineering in things, it can get pricey.

 

[nails]

Aw cmon mate you being a bit nit picky, i was talking real physical jobs, you know like mining, construction, processing, manufacturing real big sh*t, any job where there's a conveyer belt or wood chipper, they catch a few out. the real job
jobs.

Agreed in ag you need wide skill set, but i work in mining, and the amount information i have to remember is insane.

Many jobs at a certain level will keep your brain full these days.

Ant...

Yes lots to remember.

 

[HatsOff]

so we just need to employ more people

On a slightly more serious note, average weekly working hours in construction is 42 hours and 65 hours in agriculture. So the deaths per worker hour rate is a little lower.

 

[kiwi pom]

so we just need to employ more people

Maybe but perhaps it would be better to tackle the easier things first, like stop doing dumb stuff
If you look at some of the fatal accident reports, it was stupidity that killed not the lack of time or money.

 

[TelesnaAg]

Yes lots to remember.View attachment 1126218

I wish lol

Ant...

 

[Blaithin]

For some reason Facebook is hitting me with a post it thinks I might like. Not sure why, but either way it's content made me chuckle and is a example of farm safety mentality.

Original post is a lady farmer complaining that her new JD tractor seat is too narrow, every bump she hits launches her onto the seat belt clip causing bruises. Very uncomfortable and she suggests JD engineers make seats for more than skinny assed men (without going into thought that many farmers are quite.... not skinny)

Her second post on the subject is a defense that she's not obese, just robust, but don't worry, her husband is removing the offending seat belt clip!

.....

So... a tractor has a seat belt as a safety measure. It's entire purpose is to hold you in so you don't bounce around and hurt yourself. Someone doesn't use it, bounces around, hurts themselves, and the brain child idea is to take it out instead of... use it.




Farming mentality at it's finest.

 

[TelesnaAg]

For some reason Facebook is hitting me with a post it thinks I might like. Not sure why, but either way it's content made me chuckle and is a example of farm safety mentality.

Original post is a lady farmer complaining that her new JD tractor seat is too narrow, every bump she hits launches her onto the seat belt clip causing bruises. Very uncomfortable and she suggests JD engineers make seats for more than skinny assed men (without going into thought that many farmers are quite.... not skinny)

Her second post on the subject is a defense that she's not obese, just robust, but don't worry, her husband is removing the offending seat belt clip!

.....

So... a tractor has a seat belt as a safety measure. It's entire purpose is to hold you in so you don't bounce around and hurt yourself. Someone doesn't use it, bounces around, hurts themselves, and the brain child idea is to take it out instead of... use it.




Farming mentality at it's finest.

I follow Mike Mitchell on youtube, really enjoy the vids, however yesterday the latest vid has his wife, and i regard both of these guys to be very cluey, running a little rotary hoe on a kubota tractor with young son on moms lap. Now chances of something going wrong probably very slim, but it made me cringe a bit from a safety perspective, i would definitely not class them as bad parents however, they are very proud of there son and it shows, and no doubt will get the best of everything in life.

And to be fair Mike does go through alot of risk management in his vids, financially and work wise.

I think in general farmers risk management slills are very low, and hence the injury/death rate.

Ant...