How to start selling livestock and what justifies you being a farmer?

[Old Boar]

The best advice I can give you is to let the field out for a year - this will test the fences, the water availability etc while keeping the grass in good order. In that year, find a friendly farmer who can give you work at the weekends or when you can manage it, to show you the ropes, how and what to look for in a good beast, what can go wrong etc. This "know your animal" will be invaluable when you get your own stock, as you can pick the sort of stock you want. When you can look at a cow standing in the field and know roughly what she is thinking and her state of health, then you are beginning to be a farmer.
Once you have handled a few cattle, sheep or goats (there is a huge market for goat meat) you will know what you like, and how you get on being plastered in shyte, standing in a gale with hail taking the skin off your face, with numb fingers and toes, and the cattle/sheep/goats taking off in the other direction, and if you can raise a grin at all this, you have the makings of a farmer!

 

[ajcc]

Where there's a will there's a way. You can likely borrow a crush for the 2 or 3 occasions each year you'll need it for 10 stores. Sad how folk tapping an apple screen are so negative about dirt under fingernails.
Granted the associated bureaucracy of cattle keeping is wearing but to a newman it is a novelty rather than a drag. Go for it mate, we all did/have , enthusiasm will still triumphs, just don't expect much monetary reward!

 

[Alicecow]

Interesting the different interpretations of 'crush'.
Here the usual style is a chute with a skulling gate at one end and a plain back gate at the other. I have seen one which can be used in either direction as it just has a backing gate at each end. Another made of normal gates held fast with fence posts, no skulling gate. Annual tests etc would be conducted in these with the chute filled with cattle, all tested then released, chute refilled, and so on until all are done.
The big fancy boxes with doors all over the place are a rarity this side of the Shannon.

 

[JLTate]

Our vets wouldn't test or do work on our cattle without a crush.

Some of our young Hereford bulls are nearly 1.2 tons. I wouldn't want anything other than a crush when working with them

 

[RedMerle]

If you've never had any livestock before I would say bullocks is a disaster waiting to happen.

Are you working full time? Presumably you are if your holding is just 16 acres. So what age bullocks are you getting. Bottle fed/Weaned? Doesn't take long for them to go rapidly downhill and how will you manage pumping them full of electrolytes when you're at work.

Yes cattle can live outside. But with some sort of housing. 6 bullocks once they hit 3 months will be a bloody tight squeeze in one igloo.

So that's your igloos/hutches at a couple of grand each.

I've had 2 calves in an igloo over the winter with mats down to protect the grass. But with the bad weather we had the ground round the trough got too wet. So I was walking buckets of water up to them twice a day. And that's just 2 calves.

Plus there's the regulations on dairy bullocks in any fields with public footpaths.

Oh and the fact if you're backs turned there's probably only one out of your 6 that won't take the opportunity to nudge you between the legs.

I love calf rearing. But out of the 6 I reared one dropped dead with random bloating. That's another thing. Just blew up like a balloon. Several times. Then died later on. At least when he did go it was reasonably peaceful and I was there. They suffocate if they bloat and you aren't there to sort it.

Would I rear them again? Aye maybe if I was a stay at home mother with a large enough holding that I could have hard standing for a good igloo set up. Or if I worked from home a lot. But over winter in fields again... doubtful.

And I cannot stress enough go do a good calf rearing course.

Obviously my first 6 calves were my first 6. And I think I did a pretty good job of them. But I wasn't working full time.

But before that I'd had sheep and helped look after winter sheep. So I already knew how to deal with some things.

 

[RedMerle]

And I didn't make millions . And I had to drag my wee pals smelly body over a field for the knackerman. Worry less about what makes you a farmer and concentrate whether you enjoy it and doing a job you're proud of.

 

[JP1]

A crush is a legal requirement not an option!

The APHA should now only issue a cattle herd mark if you can state you have adequate handling facilities. As with all these things they are "guidelines" not "law"

 

[Cowgirl]

Interesting how these threads get side - tracked. No-one is questioning the value of a crush but a good one is a very expensive piece of kit, and no-one would ever suggest keeping a bull without a crush - even a Hereford. But the OP isn't going to keep a bull (well that's what I said initially too).
Also no-one has suggested he rear dairy calves - I agree that's far too much work for someone with a full time job, and the point that animals can get sick when you're not there is very valid.
My question is do you really need a crush on site for grazing half a dozen weaned store NATIVE bullocks (with a horse) over the summer months, or would a couple of strong pens be adequate? There are loads of farmers round where we live who rent a field for the summer and put stock in it. They do have a crush presumably but it's probably miles away. I suppose they could always take an animal home if it's sick, so perhaps renting the field to another farmer initially is the best idea, but they'll want you to fertilise it and maintain the fences, and it's not nearly so enjoyable when they're not your own.

 

[RedMerle]

I never suggested he rear dairy calves. He never specified what age or type of bullocks. So I gave a valid reason why not to consider them. I don't believe that constitutes me getting side tracked

 

[Cowgirl]

No and you made very valid points. It was the crush issue I was referring to.

 

[Henarar]

My question is do you really need a crush on site for grazing half a dozen weaned store NATIVE bullocks

I see this a lot, why make the distinction that they have to be native [whatever that really is]

 

[ladycrofter]

I was agreeing with the sentiments on here. I can't imagine doing the job without all the handling set up we have now. But thinking back - I bought a 7 acre field off an old boy in 1987 who for many years used to have a few beast just on this 7 acres. Nothing else. Folk used to manage.

No, folks used to get hurt.

Where there's a will there's a way. You can likely borrow a crush for the 2 or 3 occasions each year you'll need it for 10 stores. Sad how folk tapping an apple screen are so negative about dirt under fingernails.
Granted the associated bureaucracy of cattle keeping is wearing but to a newman it is a novelty rather than a drag. Go for it mate, we all did/have , enthusiasm will still triumphs, just don't expect much monetary reward!

Yes but then there's the time you find something wrong and need to get the animal secure there and then. Re: crushes, up here the days of catching a cow behind a gate are long gone. Sure you can make do with a mobile race and a head lock at the end if necessary. Or pick up and old crush at the machinery sale for a few hundred £.

Anyway, I disagree that people are being negative. Those of us who keep cattle no doubt ALL have personal experience or near-misses with the magnitude of harm that can happen even with quiet cattle. For the OP to have a good experience with cattle, starting with something smaller is best. Like leaning to ride a push bike before getting motorcycle. Cattle require experience IMHO. Keeping sheep gives you that.

Since sheep are also good for cleaning up a field after cattle, @Jonathan89 later on you can keep the sheep and get some rotational grazing going.

 

[RedMerle]

No, folks used to get hurt.



Yes but then there's the time you find something wrong and need to get the animal secure there and then. Re: crushes, up here the days of catching a cow behind a gate are long gone. Sure you can make do with a mobile race and a head lock at the end if necessary. Or pick up and old crush at the machinery sale for a few hundred £.

Anyway, I disagree that people are being negative. Those of us who keep cattle no doubt ALL have personal experience or near-misses with the magnitude of harm that can happen even with quiet cattle. For the OP to have a good experience with cattle, starting with something smaller is best. Like leaning to ride a push bike before getting motorcycle. Cattle require experience IMHO. Keeping sheep gives you that.

Since sheep are also good for cleaning up a field after cattle, @Jonathan89 later on you can keep the sheep and get some rotational grazing going.

I apparently had a very near miss the other day doing the pour on. Heifer apparently swung her leg out and round. I never saw it but I like to think it was down to me being stood in the right place. Pops disagreed

 

[Jonathan89]

Any suggestions and advice for starting out with sheep and what's best to an acre scenario etc. I can on here to gain advice from experts and learn so that's what I'm trying to do. You can't learn enough before you try something like this for the first time.

 

[RedMerle]

http://www.farmskills.co.uk/

Not sure where you are based. There is a smallholder sheep course in North Yorkshire coming up. But courses are UK wide if you keep an eye on it.

If you know someone who has sheep I would offer to give them a hand for free. That's how I learnt. By helping with dosing etc in return for training my dogs on their sheep.

I prefer the easy going hardier breeds like swales and blackface. But that's personal preference I should imagine

 

[Coximus]

Any suggestions and advice for starting out with sheep and what's best to an acre scenario etc. I can on here to gain advice from experts and learn so that's what I'm trying to do. You can't learn enough before you try something like this for the first time.

I started like you with 15ac owned, and expanded from their.
Start with 20 or so Cast ewes over winter, and tup them. Aim to Sell EVERYTHING the following year, once youve had a taste, and buy in the breed you intend to keep going forwards, or cross to.

The number you can keep on 16ac will range from 10-15 to 50 depending on where you are, what the winters are like, the quality of ground and the breed of sheep.

 

[RedMerle]

I wouldn't tup cull ewes. Cast ewes that are down off the hill for an easy life yes. But ewes marked for culling usually have some issue why they were a cull.

 

[ladycrofter]

Yes where are you and how would you describe your field - good flat pasture (lucky man!), stoney hill ground? Loads of interesting breeds of sheep around in every part of the country. Get something you like looking at - things like Rouge and Charollais are an acquired taste IMO!

Oh well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder .

And horns have their pros and cons.

A good idea from @Coximus, or you could buy a pen of say 10 lambs at weaning (hoggs or wethers), fatten and sell in the autumn. That way you're not battling winter weather the first time around, and once you start feeding them a little, they'll follow you anywhere. Then maybe use that money to do as @Coximus says.

Where is your nearest livestock mart? It's always interesting to see what's going through the store sheep sale and people are generally friendly and happy to answer questions. I went to a few ram sales before changing tup breed and just spoke to folk back in the penning area about their rams. Also look at the mart's sale reports on their website and that will give you an idea of prices.

 

[Coximus]

I wouldn't tup cull ewes. Cast ewes that are down off the hill for an easy life yes. But ewes marked for culling usually have some issue why they were a cull.

True, edited, One mans cast is another mans cull and visa versa... always check mouths and tits. BM fine./. but the number of cast/drafted with bad tits in a pen can be pushing it sometimes!

 

[Jonathan89]

Holbeach Lincolnshire so good flat very grassy field. I just want to keep the field self sufficient if I can. What sort of profit margins are we looking at for sheep generally? The autumn sale might be an idea for a start just to get my eye in with the job.