I’m a small farmer but I just can’t do it all myself anymore.

[two-cylinder]

With new gear, and a modern grain store, yes. How many 200 acre farms are blessed with this. And forget about selling straw, which requires you to be on tap 24/7 for 8 months of the year loading bales 2 at a time into horse boxes. A good relationship with the merchant too. No good an artic turning up in the yard if you're 40 miles away on a job..........

Exactly. Thirty years ago we were in control of cereals leaving the farm, ring up the local store when we had a slack few days and took it there ourselves job done.
Not like that anymore, often cannot sell spot, so you sell it months in advance, with no idea which day of 30 a lorry may arrive?
Closer to the time, you perhaps get 48 or 24 hours notice.
That's no good if you have committed yourself to be somewhere else for a week.

 

[Flatlander]

Reading all the hoops farmers have to jump thru just to produce or market their produce now saddens me. the TFA NFU and government bodies have sponged off farming fir so long they should be ashamed of letting the industry become so regulated and sticking farmers with the bill. I have reached an age now that I can relate to the op. I have two daughter that are still too young to help or know if they will be interested in farming but I highly doubt they will. I’m more over equipped now than ever and still wonder why jobs take as long but the reality is I’m getting older. Still love what I do but the sparkle is harder to find. I’d seriously consider renting out the ground and help out the tenant with some driving just to keep my hand in and still feel like I have a purpose but also have time to do other things in life that are unlikely to get done if the farm takes all the time up. I couldnt handle the amount of paperwork and restrictions that you guys do. Respect to anyone that farms.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

sh!t what a depressing thread. It Reminds me a lot of my dad talking to his brothers or fellow farmers. It’s at the point I have to watch who I spend time with the negativity is so overpowering.

Am I just young and delusional? I see nothing but opportunity in farming. Plenty of dark days every year but so what, get that in everything. I have no control what happens in the big bad world, only control over my reactions, what happens in my head.

Heaps of opportunities, heaps of traps.

The trap IMO is adding complication to what is inherently complex, adding risk to what is inherently risky, or making what is marginal even moreso.
If you can steer clear of those pitfalls, it's grand and TBH, if there was any more "writing on the wall" you wouldn't know it was a wall anymore

 

[Lowland1]

Or the sector will consolidate until businesses are at a sufficient size to be competitive. Producing a globally traded commodity without a unique selling point means one must compete with global price point.

That's it.

Why should one of the most important jobs in the world need to receive a subsidy to cover the costs ?
Sooner or later food price or the part the farmer gets will have to rise or governments will have to pay farmers a proper subsidy to stay in business, either will do or there will be massive food shortages and riots.

Horsey ladies will sell themselves before their old nag

The price of food has risen as has the price farmers get for it. Other factors have taken away the benefits of the rise in commodity prices though. I don't think established farmers should be subsidised. I'd like to see some form of help for new entrants though. My main point is though times have changed and on some farms it's no longer necessary or economically viable to be a full-time farmer problem is for some peopl there's a stigma to being a part-time farmer or working for some one else. If your business can pay you a living that's fine but if it doesn't what then.

 

[TelesnaAg]

I run a small show 160 acres in oz, and work 4.5 days a week, and at times there’s not enough hours in the day, as I have to do almost everything myself to make it pay, the only job I don’t do is baling, everything else right down to our equivalent of VAT book work.

I manage it by over capitalising on farm infrastructure to a degree, extra gates etc to set lane ways up for ease of shifting stock, big sheds, large yard, premium stock handling facilities, if I didn’t do this it would be be all worth it, yes make money but have no life.

in about 2 years my infrastructure projects be close to all done and it will save me a bunch of time during busy periods.

Ant…

 

[The Seeker]

To the original poster, I was lying in bed last night thinking the exact thing we now have to be , butcher baker candlestick maker, lollipop man teacher fool boss and new boy, the systems slowing gone mad and bloated and I don’t seem to much better off. It’s great the uk leads the way in managing there farmers ( cough) but it’s all so bloody unnecessary

 

[britishblue]

I often think if Government actually wanted to save a few billion they could absolutely get rid of so many hangers on. I remember years ago when a journalist said Israel had 10 people who organised military procurement and Britain had 18000 ! Think how many completely useless jobs are out there that would never be missed.

 

[devonshirekiwi]

I keep thinking and looking at Share farming, but the financial regime does not really lend itself from what I can see. Not like NZ from what I understand...

We started farming in Pembrokeshire on a "sharemilking" position with a large landowner. It was more a partnership with us owning 50% of the cows and had 50% of the milk cheque. All other stock and income was ours.The whole set up was done with the approval of the tax department so there are ways for young keen farmers to get a foot on the ladder, and also give older landowners an income without selling the farm.
Wether this is a realistic option now is debatable with land values.

 

[DrWazzock]

That's it.

The price of food has risen as has the price farmers get for it. Other factors have taken away the benefits of the rise in commodity prices though. I don't think established farmers should be subsidised. I'd like to see some form of help for new entrants though. My main point is though times have changed and on some farms it's no longer necessary or economically viable to be a full-time farmer problem is for some peopl there's a stigma to being a part-time farmer or working for some one else. If your business can pay you a living that's fine but if it doesn't what then.

What I have found is that the supply of affordable and maintainable secondhand machinery has just about dried up. So more and more of my time is spent on more extreme maintenance. At one time I’d have moved a tractor on before it developed gearbox problems but now it’s a matter of fixing it for my business’s survival. I can’t afford to pay somebody to fix my machinery and even if I could they struggle to find staff old enough to know the machine.
So it’s actually less and less of a part time job for me. Tractors produced after year 2000 are no use to me secondhand as they too complex but those produced before that days have either been exported or snapped up at inflated prices by classic collectors and sitting in shed somewhere doing nothing.
At one time the local estate bought MF525 combines and 590 tractors and traded them in with plenty of life left in them. We could afford that kind of machinery. A secondhand Claas Lexion or quad track is no use to us at all.
So really, machinery wise we are kind of cut off now though what I have will see me to 65.
It’s this kind of thing makes it, in reality, not a part time job. There just aren’t enough acres to justify the cost of machinery that would make it a part time job. I could become a telephone and slippers farmer and get contractors to do everything but it would soak up too much profit to be worth bothering.
Anyway better get on replacing the tank frame in my elderly Bateman. Second time in 25 years. And MOT due. What’s the alternative? Contractors? Even secondhand trailed sprayer unaffordable and not as good as my 40 year old Bateman Hi Lo.
It is ultimately a matter of scale. All I can do to counter that is either work harder if I want to remain a hands on active farmer or I have to admit the scale disadvantage and stop doing most of it myself and change the business radically.
Whilst I enjoy being a hands on practical farmer I acknowledge that there aren’t enough hours to do absolutely everything myself with smaller older kit. So change is required but it’s difficult to accept it. But I will. That’s the point of this thread. To explore the way forward for many of us who aren’t as young as we were. It shouldn’t be depressing. It just takes a bit of getting used to.

 

[Hindsight]

What I have found is that the supply of affordable and maintainable secondhand machinery has just about dried up. So more and more of my time is spent on more extreme maintenance. At one time I’d have moved a tractor on before it developed gearbox problems but now it’s a matter of fixing it for my business’s survival. I can’t afford to pay somebody to fix my machinery and even if I could they struggle to find staff old enough to know the machine.
So it’s actually less and less of a part time job for me. Tractors produced after year 2000 are no use to me secondhand as they too complex but those produced before that days have either been exported or snapped up at inflated prices by classic collectors and sitting in shed somewhere doing nothing.
At one time the local estate bought MF525 combines and 590 tractors and traded them in with plenty of life left in them. We could afford that kind of machinery. A secondhand Claas Lexion or quad track is no use to us at all.
So really, machinery wise we are kind of cut off now though what I have will see me to 65.
It’s this kind of thing makes it, in reality, not a part time job. There just aren’t enough acres to justify the cost of machinery that would make it a part time job. I could become a telephone and slippers farmer and get contractors to do everything but it would soak up too much profit to be worth bothering.
Anyway better get on replacing the tank frame in my elderly Bateman. Second time in 25 years. And MOT due. What’s the alternative? Contractors? Even secondhand trailed sprayer unaffordable and not as good as my 40 year old Bateman Hi Lo.
It is ultimately a matter of scale. All I can do to counter that is either work harder if I want to remain a hands on active farmer or I have to admit the scale disadvantage and stop doing most of it myself and change the business radically.
Whilst I enjoy being a hands on practical farmer I acknowledge that there aren’t enough hours to do absolutely everything myself with smaller older kit. So change is required but it’s difficult to accept it. But I will. That’s the point of this thread. To explore the way forward for many of us who aren’t as young as we were. It shouldn’t be depressing. It just takes a bit of getting used to.

DR W have you taken up Defra's kind offer of a fully funded management consultancy visit and report under the Farm Resilience Fund? Part of the Agricultural Transition support to Farmers. Aimed at just such folk and farm businesses as yours. If not then it might be interesting to see the consultants views, observations, comments and advice.

 

[DrWazzock]

Just learned that my neighbour has been stopped from spreading his FYM on his own fields because his phosphate index is high. So he’s carting it all to land miles away. It’s taking him days on the road burning time and diesel. This job becomes less and less part time with every day that passes. Anybody that thinks it’s getting easier needs to try it.

 

[Devil's advocate]

My agronomist sorts out red tractor. Contractor for expensive (big) tractor jobs.

It does indeed give insight.

A change of system may well give more profits than the current regime. I don't know the current farm or farmer to comment. But many sheep enterprises seem to be break even endeavours.

The figures was hypothetical to illustrate my point. But intensive grazing systems can be extremely lucrative. If I was partnering with a landowner for such their "half" would not be free. There would be an onus on them for infrastructure (fencing, water, handling systems etc) and capital fert (P, K, pH adjustments as required). That's what a partnership is. Rather than someone thinking they're doing me a favour by letting me pay them.

Many of these agreements go wrong because of the greed and/or interference of the landowner. Naive and incompetent graziers don't help themselves either.

I'm not knocking anyone. Railing against the system or those who use it to their best advantage would be a waste of energy at best, and counter productive at worst.

We must all do what we can with the resources avail. It's unfortunate that many choose schemes over farming, but that's life.

If the landowner is providing 98% of the capital & doing 60% of the work.

I'd ditch the partner & pay a shepherd.

 

[DrWazzock]

DR W have you taken up Defra's kind offer of a fully funded management consultancy visit and report under the Farm Resilience Fund? Part of the Agricultural Transition support to Farmers. Aimed at just such folk and farm businesses as yours. If not then it might be interesting to see the consultants views, observations, comments and advice.

I know what they’d say. But I like farming. It’s not me that’s doing it wrong. It’s the rest of the system beyond my gate that’s screwed up.
But seriously yes, I think changes are afoot. I’m coming round to it ….. gradually.

 

[unlacedgecko]

My agronomist sorts out red tractor. Contractor for expensive (big) tractor jobs.

If the landowner is providing 98% of the capital & doing 60% of the work.

I'd ditch the partner & pay a shepherd.

98% of the capital? I assume you're including land value in that. As has been pointed out repeatedly, land investment is separate from production farming.

60% of the work? They're not doing any of the work of farming the stock, merely maintaining their asset.

But your view nicely demonstrates why such agreements don't work. Greed and shortsightedness.


If you can recruit and retain a competent shepherd. A rather big if these days, as many are finding.

 

[DrWazzock]

We were working on my brothers old car yesterday. There’s an internet rumour that it could be the camshaft sensor that’s causing it to cut out at random. So we replaced it. But still it cuts out at random. But when you move the wiring to the sensor it cuts out less. So it could bet he wiring. No garage can tell what’s wrong even with diagnostics. Anyway it’s also got a crankshaft sensor. But you start thinking just WTF does a diesel engine need these sensors. They managed fine without them for a century. And you see folks it’s this kind of stuff that’s killing small independent traders in all industries not just ours.

 

[teslacoils]

I often think if Government actually wanted to save a few billion they could absolutely get rid of so many hangers on. I remember years ago when a journalist said Israel had 10 people who organised military procurement and Britain had 18000 ! Think how many completely useless jobs are out there that would never be missed.

Every govt says it will do this. No uk govt has reduced civil service headcount.

 

[MrNoo]

My agronomist sorts out red tractor. Contractor for expensive (big) tractor jobs.

If the landowner is providing 98% of the capital & doing 60% of the work.

I'd ditch the partner & pay a shepherd.

I wish mine did!!!!!
The only way they want sorting is a very large bomb

 

[unlacedgecko]

Every govt says it will do this. No uk govt has reduced civil service headcount.

Even though it's desperately.needed.

 

[teslacoils]

Even though it's desperately.needed.

Sadly, every word spoke on Yes, Minister has turned out to be true.

 

[DrWazzock]

Every govt says it will do this. No uk govt has reduced civil service headcount.

Alan Clarke’s diaries. He notes that the entire British Empire at its peak using pens and paper had less civil servants than the MOD alone using all the IT that money could buy in the 1980’s.