Wish I could sell you a pure Blue bull, the calves would sure shift on your system
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
- Location
- West Yorkshire
i was pondering this the other day regarding petes current system. Being a grazer system as he is I can see how the slower longer recovery rotation works as he can hopefully carry more stock for a longer period which equates to more £££.
@Kiwi Pete would you do this if you were to run your own suckler herd fully or would you have continued with your previous ways of rotate faster to hopefully have kept the grass at a younger higher protein level for the growing young stock if you see what I’m trying to say. ? With the hope of faster growth rates to get them out the gate faster ?
- Location
- West Yorkshire
Anyone got a tidy system for carrying all there fence gear in a transport box? Looking for ideas
I’ve still got water trough pipe and battery and energisers to go in yet.
I think I may invest in a kiwi tech drinker to get rid of the big bath and stick a couple non returns in pipe for safety as we are on mains.
I’ve still got water trough pipe and battery and energisers to go in yet.
I think I may invest in a kiwi tech drinker to get rid of the big bath and stick a couple non returns in pipe for safety as we are on mains.
- Location
- somerset
then the EA would still complain, to muddy for water voles or similar, they will only be happy when the whole area has reverted to marshland.
Have to make some of those wood walkways to get about
JohnGalway
Member
- Location
- Connemara, Ireland
Lovely
Got some mud at the same parcel here, smell it before ya see it!- Location
- somerset
not allowed, they sequestered carbon.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I think I would be going slower if we were mainly cows. Dairy calves are soft little critters with no teeth but they do like to eat... I have seen no advantage to the faster round other than it gives you more exercise with the fences and makes management more exciting because of the risk factor. But everything "does just as well" on an 80 day as a 40 day round, and the land does twice as well.
- Location
- Cei newydd
Im a fool then, best time of the year.
just come in from last rounds sun was out birds singing grass starting to move nice set of triplets with full bellies
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I've been giving your question more thought.
Probably comes up with the same answer as well, but here one of the limiting factors with production ag is how do you get rid?
Whether lambs or cattle, a lot of the relative "success" of the venture comes down to selling your lamb or beef at the right time.
The right time... well, that's usually once all the bottleneck has gone, and the bottleneck is pretty huge through the season because of the great push on what you described - lets call it fast farming for simplicity - eg this massive glut of meat lined up to go get killed and shipped.
Covid made it worse, container shortages and processors waiting for a positive test to shut their plant down, but even in a relatively normal season there is massive disadvantage to the producer to sell product at reduced rates, even if it is gone really fast off the farm.
Think if we still sold lamb here, 700 lambs at $5/kg vs $6.50/kg is a huge amount of income to forgo just to "beat the drought" and a similar amount of money would pay for lamb finishing feed and winter crops for the ewes. Plus probably a bit of N going in to compensate for area lost to the cropping bit, or some bought in feed...
this is what I'm balancing our little business against, the undeniable fact that "you can't beat stupid" and it's like playing chess with a pigeon if you try that for too long on a smallholding.
Hence the "tortoise mode grazing", surely there are faster ways but I think this is our best way
- Location
- somerset
your picture looked a bit like our last field, only ours was longer, and thicker ! Lesson learnt, back on a less forward bit, by day, and a clover rich one by night, milk increased 2 litres a cow, so could presume the grass is not a high protien level, and the clover is supplying more than we thought.
In fairness to the 'long' field, cattle always scalp the 'dry' bit, but not the prg, tried lime, seaweed mix, salt and fancy ferts over the years, and never really made a difference. Before anyone suggests cutting, not possible, tried it once, never again, access the problem, and a nasty slope, which even 4 wheel tractors won't grip on. The really stupid bit, what they will graze to roots, is acidic ph 5.1, despite liming it, but the prg is 6.4. Forward thinking, quick graze till we have enough d/cows for a tight graze, august ? Traditionally a bad field for s/mastitus, sheltered field, by the stream. Any ideas gratefully received.
Everything is a trade off, good spring grass produces cheap milk, so they cut the price, barstewards. Lamb price, got a job to understand that. The price paid is higher, out of season, whether lamb beef or milk, the successful way, is to get production in those 'shortage' periods, at spring grass cost, not so easy, so sward composition has to try for that, with excellent grazing management, one of the reasons for my interest in diverse leys, with clover, can we produce a level nutrition throughout the season, plus the long roots, mineral, and medical advantages claimed. Whether we can, or cant, it will be fun to try, fun is a word sadly lacking in the farming world.
In fairness to the 'long' field, cattle always scalp the 'dry' bit, but not the prg, tried lime, seaweed mix, salt and fancy ferts over the years, and never really made a difference. Before anyone suggests cutting, not possible, tried it once, never again, access the problem, and a nasty slope, which even 4 wheel tractors won't grip on. The really stupid bit, what they will graze to roots, is acidic ph 5.1, despite liming it, but the prg is 6.4. Forward thinking, quick graze till we have enough d/cows for a tight graze, august ? Traditionally a bad field for s/mastitus, sheltered field, by the stream. Any ideas gratefully received.
Everything is a trade off, good spring grass produces cheap milk, so they cut the price, barstewards. Lamb price, got a job to understand that. The price paid is higher, out of season, whether lamb beef or milk, the successful way, is to get production in those 'shortage' periods, at spring grass cost, not so easy, so sward composition has to try for that, with excellent grazing management, one of the reasons for my interest in diverse leys, with clover, can we produce a level nutrition throughout the season, plus the long roots, mineral, and medical advantages claimed. Whether we can, or cant, it will be fun to try, fun is a word sadly lacking in the farming world.
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- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Do you ever taste-test the different plants, it's easy to tell the difference. Say we chew a bit of browntop from our ranch and then go somewhere else and try their browntop, totally different taste and even aroma. Because it's a great accumulator, on farms with poorly balanced or "sour soil" then the stock will avoid it, then it doesn't get taller but ever more sour/bitter as the aluminium or whatever keeps accumulating in the leaf tissue.
Suspect it could be nitrate, moly, sulphur or aluminium in your case that means the faster growing plants aren't favoured, "normally" it would be taken first as per @Poorbuthappy's chicken tractors and sheep experiment.
Our plants are moisture stressed which tends to be an amplifier: just as dried apricots are sweeter than fresh apricots, this will be higher in wsc and DM than we realise, simply because it's hardly seen a shower in the past 14 weeks or so
the ryegrass is really battling now
39 second mob shift
times 3. I lit a roll-your-own before I left the house, and was still chuffing on it when I took my boots off
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
Trying out for the cattle move Olympics?DoView attachment 961281
39 second mob shift
I lit a roll-your-own before I left the house, and was still chuffing on it when I took my boots off
This mob grazing will never catch on you know, it takes too much time......
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
Something we should all do from time to time. Just because it's cow food doesn't mean our own mouths can't tell us something useful about it.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It used to... it's very quick and simple once set up.
Even just mucking about in evenings and weekends it still hasn't taken a lot of time to get set up, or really cost a whole heap of money to get here
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
At certain times they want this and other times it's the last thing they'd graze, so it pays to get them to try all of it every time (nonselective grazing) or they get fussy .
If they leave it this grazing, then it won't get grazed by stock at all - that's why we tried to get things fairly neat before we could go onto longer rotations, but we had to waste grass in order to get that productivity up and get going
it's not turned out too badly as far as "stockpile" feed or deferred grazing goes, still some old and new
- Location
- somerset
our ryegrass is really battling now, to see which variety can out do other grasses first. Must admit never thought of a taste test, could be an enlightening experience.
We now have several fields where prg is not the dominant variety, other grasses and herbs/clover make up a significant proportion, a difference caused by weather, after the last few days, when we have had significant rain, it will be interesting to see how each recover. Prg has been bred to max yield, certainly if conditions are right, it will produce heavy yields here, repeat, if conditions are right, most summers, we 'dry out' aug/sept, and have traditionally grown a brassica to feed then. It might be that we rely to much on prg, and should reduce the amount in leys, and increase some more 'natural' grasses, which withstand adverse weather better, and might even taste better ! The long term aim is to recreate p/p or very long lasting leys, which provide an even nutrient throughout the year, that would help with 'climate change mob', and our pockets, or, in other words, returning back to a system that was the dominant one for centuries ! The wheel always turn full circle. Not sure if we can get to that stage, but we have modern aids that could make it easier, overseeding with a dd drill, would help to neutralise any 'out of balance' variety, or increase yields where things were losing output.
Could deep rooting herbs cure our 'rank' areas where cattle dislike the prg, supply the missing wow factor, as said 'variety is the spice of life', further research required.
We now have several fields where prg is not the dominant variety, other grasses and herbs/clover make up a significant proportion, a difference caused by weather, after the last few days, when we have had significant rain, it will be interesting to see how each recover. Prg has been bred to max yield, certainly if conditions are right, it will produce heavy yields here, repeat, if conditions are right, most summers, we 'dry out' aug/sept, and have traditionally grown a brassica to feed then. It might be that we rely to much on prg, and should reduce the amount in leys, and increase some more 'natural' grasses, which withstand adverse weather better, and might even taste better ! The long term aim is to recreate p/p or very long lasting leys, which provide an even nutrient throughout the year, that would help with 'climate change mob', and our pockets, or, in other words, returning back to a system that was the dominant one for centuries ! The wheel always turn full circle. Not sure if we can get to that stage, but we have modern aids that could make it easier, overseeding with a dd drill, would help to neutralise any 'out of balance' variety, or increase yields where things were losing output.
Could deep rooting herbs cure our 'rank' areas where cattle dislike the prg, supply the missing wow factor, as said 'variety is the spice of life', further research required.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I'll find you a video link, hang on for a mo.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand