"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Henarar]

I do question how the seed developers assess their new wonder varieties. Taking a hard first cut off a new ley now feels like a brutal approach to me. It almost guarantees poor ground cover in the longer term.

Your dead right about the thick bottom too. Often pp has huge feed mass in the bottom 6 inches where rg leys have very little.

Yep some of our of stuff if you look over the gate before you cut there don't seem much there as its not very high but they have yielded quite well, really thick this time,
I cut a field on top the hill yesterday that was burnt right up blue with that frost back along, it will be interesting to see what we get.
cows are going in some second round that looks like mowing grass and its a job to find the sheep, its changed completely in the last 10 days

 

[Henarar]

I always underestimate it.
Even though I tell myself what you just said!

I shifted them at lunchtime today (finally got a turn!) and they still have "a day's worth" of tucker in their paddocks by 5:30.View attachment 966439
you'll know exactly where this is, (I think my handful of cattle were in where the middle mob is about 4 years ago, and the sheep were up where the cows are now, out of shot to the right)

Funny how things have changed in that time

We had 424 hoggets and 14 cattle grazing, and 70 housed IIRC
View attachment 966440
Never pays to say things like "has never had a single lamb in her life" too loudly. She's now had lamb number 9 (not bad for a 3yo)

AHHHHHHH

 

[Kiwi Pete]

AHHHHHHH

I thought I'd have less of this with less sheep.....

 

[Henarar]

I thought I'd have less of this with less sheep.....

come on, can't hep loving little lambs

 

[Kiwi Pete]

- @Henarar , you saw my landscape shot the other afternoon (still have phone trouble so page hopping is painful)

"it looks brown"

this is why we are looking for that colour change,,, ie not half-grazing the plants and going around and around the farm as fast as we did while we were getting the plants kickstarted - this plateau he talks about, well we came off the end of the plateau

This is why we take it down well (but not too well) to snap everything out of "rest" - and then we plan the rest for it.
I suppose it is the logical extension of putting the stock in the right place at the right time, that you actually let them do the job before they leave

 

[Henarar]

- @Henarar , you saw my landscape shot the other afternoon (still have phone trouble so page hopping is painful)

"it looks brown"

this is why we are looking for that colour change,,, ie not half-grazing the plants and going around and around the farm as fast as we did while we were getting the plants kickstarted - this plateau he talks about, well we came off the end of the plateau

This is why we take it down well (but not too well) to snap everything out of "rest" - and then we plan the rest for it.
I suppose it is the logical extension of putting the stock in the right place at the right time, that you actually let them do the job before they leave

yep watched that one,

wouldn't it depend on the time of year as to how far it wants taking down as I said above I am not to keen on taking it to low this time of year, later on in the season its a different story, what we cut at home is then used for grazing, none is cut more than once, I don't cut silly low but am keen on getting good cover back on it, if it stays dry after cutting and don't get cover that's when we are knackered, it has to be the same with grazing hard doesn't it ? taking it really low is ok if there is enough rain/moisture ?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

yep watched that one,

wouldn't it depend on the time of year as to how far it wants taking down as I said above I am not to keen on taking it to low this time of year, later on in the season its a different story, what we cut at home is then used for grazing, none is cut more than once, I don't cut silly low but am keen on getting good cover back on it, if it stays dry after cutting and don't get cover that's when we are knackered, it has to be the same with grazing hard doesn't it ? taking it really low is ok if there is enough rain/moisture ?

Not as much as I used to think. I would have said "yeah, maybe a lax grazing in the springtime" but all that really guarantees is that you will have a summer farm that looks like summer hit it.

Plan B is that you have a paddock of spring grass to go into, every day of the year, and that high leaf:stem thing only happens if you make it happen, goodness knows we tried most other things along the way..

It has to be said though, there is always the law of maximum, you only push one principle so far before another principle becomes apparent. This one will be the same but I'm really starting to see how to give this all a lot more time in the sun without just having a heap of rubbish when we get there.
(Needs to be well cleaned up, to get there)

I see the opposite quite often here in the summer, someone will bale a paddock and a week later there's a handful of lambs or cattle eating the green pick that comes away after mowing and then it shuts down after that.
I never used to think that was "good" but that was based on the idea that the plant eats it's roots if you knock it down hard, which is quite false as it so happens
What happens is every day growing, the plant is pumping stuff down and sucking stuff up.
Within reason, the more of those days before you come back there, the more of that the plant does .
Then the cow can do more, so the plant can do more, so the cow can do more

Either way, it stops that partial rest

 

[som farmer]

My as yet ungrazed grass went to seed very quickly, but down below all the gaps are being filled with legumes despite the high temperatures and lack pf rain.View attachment 966418Each future mouthful should have a nice mix to it. I am going 1/3 the speed around the paddocks that I usually do in the spring and am having no complaints. Rumen fill good, mood quiet, no grumbling.

that would be ahead of our older grass, amazingly it hasn't run to head yet.
Unfortunately there isn't a lot of milk in that sward. Even though our cows are perfectly happy on it, our leys have got to that 'stemmy' stage, yield down, fat and protien up, so less litres, but more pence per litre, just need to balance the two. The problem with the rotation, is exactly the same as last year, they have all arrived at the same growth at the same time, last year, it was the odd drop of rain, this year, the cold dry spring, which delayed regrowth, and then boom. Being flexible, we can slip over to the 'plate metre' system, and conserve the surplus, which can be fed, if grass declines, dread to think what the plate metre 'reading' would be here, probably 10,000kg/dm/ha !

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

- @Henarar , you saw my landscape shot the other afternoon (still have phone trouble so page hopping is painful)

"it looks brown"

this is why we are looking for that colour change,,, ie not half-grazing the plants and going around and around the farm as fast as we did while we were getting the plants kickstarted - this plateau he talks about, well we came off the end of the plateau

This is why we take it down well (but not too well) to snap everything out of "rest" - and then we plan the rest for it.
I suppose it is the logical extension of putting the stock in the right place at the right time, that you actually let them do the job before they leave

And that is the fault at the heart of the ELMS "standards" for grasslands which all push for LESS stock on the land.

 

[som farmer]

I do question how the seed developers assess their new wonder varieties. Taking a hard first cut off a new ley now feels like a brutal approach to me. It almost guarantees poor ground cover in the longer term.

Your dead right about the thick bottom too. Often pp has huge feed mass in the bottom 6 inches where rg leys have very little.

must be 40 yrs ago, we 'sorted' out a derelict orchard, trees out, ground levelled out, and reseeded, massive first cut, we had to pick up 1 10ft swathe a time, couldn't handle 2 into 1, our usual, it never came back, and was reseeded in the autumn. We had a festololium ley, planted spring, the first dry summer, grew fantastically well, about the only grass that did, year 2, dairy grazed it, regrowth brilliant, so we took a heavy silage cut, and never came back = reseed.
I agree that modern all singing and dancing leys, do not agree with serious stress, coupled with the fact that, under EU standards, seed viability could be as low as 67%, and still be legal............. Perhaps the 'other' grasses have not had the same degree of 'improvement', coupled with smaller seed, might be the answer.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

And that is the fault at the heart of the ELMS "standards" for grasslands which all push for LESS stock on the land.

You see it firsthand here, I used to be able to fish up and down the streams here because of stock grazing to the water.

Fence it off "doing the right thing" and it ends up in broom, gorse, ragwort and waist-deep cocksfoot

ironic that having a legume rich area right up to the waterway is meant to be the "fix" for nitrate pollution of the streams, but you can't fix stupid

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Pulling ragwort this morning

Someone likes the diversity

 

[som farmer]

- @Henarar , you saw my landscape shot the other afternoon (still have phone trouble so page hopping is painful)

"it looks brown"

this is why we are looking for that colour change,,, ie not half-grazing the plants and going around and around the farm as fast as we did while we were getting the plants kickstarted - this plateau he talks about, well we came off the end of the plateau

This is why we take it down well (but not too well) to snap everything out of "rest" - and then we plan the rest for it.
I suppose it is the logical extension of putting the stock in the right place at the right time, that you actually let them do the job before they leave

beyond the realms of possibility that anyone from defra would speak to him, but they would queue to speak to packup chris, and that sums up how we are expected to farm, a holes. Interesting listening to peter savory, another tendril to ponder over.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

- @Henarar , you saw my landscape shot the other afternoon (still have phone trouble so page hopping is painful)

"it looks brown"

this is why we are looking for that colour change,,, ie not half-grazing the plants and going around and around the farm as fast as we did while we were getting the plants kickstarted - this plateau he talks about, well we came off the end of the plateau

This is why we take it down well (but not too well) to snap everything out of "rest" - and then we plan the rest for it.
I suppose it is the logical extension of putting the stock in the right place at the right time, that you actually let them do the job before they leave

Trouble is they're quite happy to see it turn to brush here.

 

[Crofter64]

Trouble is they're quite happy to see it turn to brush here.

It’s climate friendly

 

[JohnGalway]

beyond the realms of possibility that anyone from defra would speak to him, but they would queue to speak to packup chris, and that sums up how we are expected to farm, a holes. Interesting listening to peter savory, another tendril to ponder over.

Trouble is they're quite happy to see it turn to brush here.

Two good reasons why I'm working on avenues to get away from CAP here. Unfortunately I can't escape the crap that's going to get enshrined in law, but I'll do my best to get over or around it. It's one thing to have objectives, quite another to be directed with arseways methods that won't get there in the end.

 

[ShooTa]

quick query - but id like your opinions
field that was last grazed 22 days ago...And likely going into in 9-10 days time.
it was grazed hard last time - and the field has nowgot fairly short grass and a large areas of short clover
so options are graze lightly - 2 days for the 3 acres or Skip it entirely and make up the 2 days elsewhere (couple of lighter grazed areas which will take it)

 

[Guleesh]

quick query - but id like your opinions
field that was last grazed 22 days ago...And likely going into in 9-10 days time.
it was grazed hard last time - and the field has nowgot fairly short grass and a large areas of short clover
so options are graze lightly - 2 days for the 3 acres or Skip it entirely and make up the 2 days elsewhere (couple of lighter grazed areas which will take it)
View attachment 966513View attachment 966514

If that field was here and I grazed it in 9 -10 days time then I wouldn't expect it recover much at all this year, except for the docks of course, as I know from bitter experience.

That said, It's not here and I've no idea what that will look like in 9 -10 days time.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

quick query - but id like your opinions
field that was last grazed 22 days ago...And likely going into in 9-10 days time.
it was grazed hard last time - and the field has nowgot fairly short grass and a large areas of short clover
so options are graze lightly - 2 days for the 3 acres or Skip it entirely and make up the 2 days elsewhere (couple of lighter grazed areas which will take it)
View attachment 966513View attachment 966514

At that length, this time of year, i'd skip it as under-recovered.

 

[Karliboy]

quick query - but id like your opinions
field that was last grazed 22 days ago...And likely going into in 9-10 days time.
it was grazed hard last time - and the field has nowgot fairly short grass and a large areas of short clover
so options are graze lightly - 2 days for the 3 acres or Skip it entirely and make up the 2 days elsewhere (couple of lighter grazed areas which will take it)
View attachment 966513View attachment 966514

id defo skip it and let it express itself for another month or two but then I’m cattle and not sheep.