"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Henarar]

Thats a pity, grass just loves to grow and its a job to stop it, got to be worth another go as the wool isn't worth much.

Had a look under or spuds yesterday, they are not quite ready yet but are looking really good, beans are looking ok but the pigeons had a few as we didn't get some net on them soon enough

 

[Guleesh]

Thats a pity, grass just loves to grow and its a job to stop it, got to be worth another go as the wool isn't worth much.

Had a look under or spuds yesterday, they are not quite ready yet but are looking really good, beans are looking ok but the pigeons had a few as we didn't get some net on them soon enough

It was looking quite promising for a spell. and a lot of good stuff had leached out of the wool.

We've successfully used wool on the veg plot over winter for a couple of years now, but that's with relatively weed free soil. Although we'd had pigs on this bit until it was black, I suppose most of the grass roots were still very much viable and the wool being a bit too thin let just enough light in.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yep, I was asrounded just how much mulch it takes to stuff grasses off, you can see why they resort to plastic really!
We found here (veg plot had gone to grass so it was very hard to not just shift off somewhere new, but we like a challenge) and I went with polythene for a couple of years to beat the grass and docks back.

Once they're subdued it's a lot easier keeping up the mulch enough to deal with broadleaf weeds

just like your paddocks really, you can't hold grass back with much if you try

 

[Walwyn]

Pictures below are where R2 heifers currently grazing. Is this enough stem taken for a total grazing approach? It is pretty much monoculture perennial ryegrass. As recovery is going to be slow would it be an opportunity to drill in some diversity of grasses? Sprayed small seeds onto similar with the Tow and fert last year with some success but obviously can't do grass seed with it.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

What were you thinking of adding? Lots of grasses don't really get going hard enough to compete with strong ryegrass and the almost allelopathic effects of the straw - except other ryegrasses

maybe hit it again with some animals in 2½ weeks to overgraze what's strongly recovering, which would give a drilling window.

However if it was here I would wait til autumn as it would most likely germinate and then die in the next 4-5 months of watching rain go past ‍

 

[Walwyn]

What were you thinking of adding? Lots of grasses don't really get going hard enough to compete with strong ryegrass and the almost allelopathic effects of the straw - except other ryegrasses

maybe hit it again with some animals in 2½ weeks to overgraze what's strongly recovering, which would give a drilling window.

However if it was here I would wait til autumn as it would most likely germinate and then die in the next 4-5 months of watching rain go past ‍

Cocksfoot, Timothy and fescue most likely, perhaps should just be patient while function improves and they come naturally when it ready. I suppose getting impatient after seeing the benefit were we have fast tracked by sowing herbal leys.
I get the fear of dry, 20-25mm forecast last Wednesday for this weekend barely got 4mm in the end.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The tide has come in here pretty quickly.

This cocksfoot plant was grazed about a week ago and it's still got grunt left!

We have received about ⅓ of our average annual rainfall so far this month

Cocksfoot and timothy easily come with longer periods between grazings, especially at the ends of the growing season when they really find a gear.
But it's worth fast-tracking progress before rising energy costs make it seem like a hobby for millionaires

 

[Treg]

View attachment 1043837
The tide has come in here pretty quickly.

This cocksfoot plant was grazed about a week ago and it's still got grunt left!

We have received about ⅓ of our average annual rainfall so far this month

Cocksfoot and timothy easily come with longer periods between grazings, especially at the ends of the growing season when they really find a gear.
But it's worth fast-tracking progress before rising energy costs make it seem like a hobby for millionaires

Thats a lot of rain Kp , was it dry last summer or have you had a wet year?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Thats a lot of rain Kp , was it dry last summer or have you had a wet year?

Both, really. The first 5 months of 22 brought us bugger all, the first 8 days of June we'd equalled that tally... and it kept coming.

I think we're averaging around 16mm/day this month, not even badly hit by the couple of storms that have come by.
Just a return to the "old south Otago weather" I remember from my youth, to be fair I grew up with it so it feels comfortable to "be swimming"

the main contrast from those distant days is we aren't trying to stuff about with tractors and haybales to make up for no cover.
So the "arrrgh" feeling has died away and I'm bloody grateful for every drop that lands, instead

 

[Crofter64]

Cocksfoot, Timothy and fescue most likely, perhaps should just be patient while function improves and they come naturally when it ready. I suppose getting impatient after seeing the benefit were we have fast tracked by sowing herbal leys.
I get the fear of dry, 20-25mm forecast last Wednesday for this weekend barely got 4mm in the end.

Could you feed some clover seed with the mineral? I’m going to give it a try.

 

[Rod Dumbreck]

Could you feed some clover seed with the mineral? I’m going to give it a try.

This method seems to be referred to quite often, but does anyone know which seeds survive passage through a cow. I observe that after grazing long (gone to seed) grass, the cowpats have a forest of new green shoots. I haven't worked out if these are going on to survive, or whether the surrounding grass just covers them over.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Big old cows are good, especially when fed big old cow tucker!
There is plenty of fibre to carry seed and although it takes more chewing to get allowed further down the cow, it just seems to "work", and work well.
It's been the primary way to get grass distributed across large distances, so it has to work in nature.
-and, this diet will be constantly achieving a fairly neutral pH, which helps to not dissolve the seed

add some extra N into the system and it stops being an effective way to seed; I think it's why the Progressive Party struggle with all this stuff - the pH in the rumen is wrong, the rate of passage is wrong, the feed is too soft and the energy is all stripped out of the cow trying to process the protein overload- and seed "is energy".
And then, the recovery is too short for the seedlings, to put the icing on a shitty system.

Whoops I said that aloud. Bloody voice to text, I'll blame that

 

[Henarar]

It's been the primary way to get grass distributed across large distances, so it has to work in nature.

this

 

[Tyedyetom]

I put this photo up on here on here just less than a year ago, showing thistles growing on the last division of my lambing field- left side= many sheep for few days, right side= few sheep for many days.
View attachment 1043799

This field was then grazed in December, with sheep in for tupping, and grazed again at lambing, and this is today:View attachment 1043801
Thistles almost completely absent. Going to blast some sheep round this buttercup area of the field this summer. We went round the field the other way round for lambing this year and this is the other end, although it's a much drier part of the same field, it's had exactly the same grazing and rest period, but it held the last few sheep to lamb for over a week, so predictably, it's now growing some thistles.View attachment 1043802
Quite amazing how a few extra days can mean the difference between thistles and no thistles.

How long did this take to achieve? That’s impressive work with sheep

 

[Guleesh]

How long did this take to achieve? That’s impressive work with sheep

Well, it took just under a week of not moving some sheep to grow thistles where there need have been none... but the big picture is we've just been about 5 years diligently trying to not overgraze, and tried varying residual lengths and varying rest lengths. It's been about learning how small changes in management can hugely affect what is growing and how well it is growing. We're still learning and experimenting, there's plenty of room left for improvement, which is a nice thing because we're still moving forwards at a good pace.

This photo was the 26th June 2018, although we'd already been trying to manage our grazing better with the fields and fences we already had, this was the year when we really got started properly. The same situation as this year, this had been rested since lambing to have something on the ground to get started with

(sheep going in were new to electric hence the strimmer) this is the one taken yesterday, still a week to go before the 26th

Might not look like much to some, but the change for us has been huge, I found the desperate situation we were in years ago of watching the ground grow less and less each year mentally hard, efforts to clear rushes and moss were quite futile, experiments with lime and fertiliser pretty much completely failed.

The best part about it is it cost next to nothing to turn things around, the missing ingredient was simply timing. These days I think I'd sell all the sheep before I'd see them set stocked on this field again.

Not so sure about impressive work with sheep, it just needed us to stop, and realise we were wrecking it with sheep. The other thing worth mentioning, is we've been very careful that this field hasn't seen treated sheep within the withdrawal times of any chemical products.

 

[Samcowman]

Well, it took just under a week of not moving some sheep to grow thistles where there need have been none... but the big picture is we've just been about 5 years diligently trying to not overgraze, and tried varying residual lengths and varying rest lengths. It's been about learning how small changes in management can hugely affect what is growing and how well it is growing. We're still learning and experimenting, there's plenty of room left for improvement, which is a nice thing because we're still moving forwards at a good pace.

This photo was the 26th June 2018, although we'd already been trying to manage our grazing better with the fields and fences we already had, this was the year when we really got started properly. The same situation as this year, this had been rested since lambing to have something on the ground to get started with
View attachment 1044122
(sheep going in were new to electric hence the strimmer) this is the one taken yesterday, still a week to go before the 26thView attachment 1044124

Might not look like much to some, but the change for us has been huge, I found the desperate situation we were in years ago of watching the ground grow less and less each year mentally hard, efforts to clear rushes and moss were quite futile, experiments with lime and fertiliser pretty much completely failed.

The best part about it is it cost next to nothing to turn things around, the missing ingredient was simply timing. These days I think I'd sell all the sheep before I'd see them set stocked on this field again.

Not so sure about impressive work with sheep, it just needed us to stop, and realise we were wrecking it with sheep. The other thing worth mentioning, is we've been very careful that this field hasn't seen treated sheep within the withdrawal times of any chemical products.

What are your conclusions with residual lengths and rest lengths? Is it that grazing time and thus overgrazing affects thistle growth more than either of the above? If so it correlates with my thoughts as well.

 

[Guleesh]

Quite nice to look at some photos, it's hard to appreciate change when you see it everyday. Just found these on streetview.

 

[Guleesh]

What are your conclusions with residual lengths and rest lengths? Is it that grazing time and thus overgrazing affects thistle growth more than either of the above? If so it correlates with my thoughts as well.

Yep the thistle are purely from the overgraze, and they are almost instant.

 

[Guleesh]

What are your conclusions with residual lengths and rest lengths? Is it that grazing time and thus overgrazing affects thistle growth more than either of the above? If so it correlates with my thoughts as well.

Generally I'm going for what's been talked about on here as total grazing. Resting for long enough that it's clean enough to take right down to nothing.

Now that the 'power' has come back into the ground, will start trying to extract a little more from it. After all although it's nice to see improved ground, we're improving it for ourselves to benefit not to save the planet. I'm confident that any 'damage' inadvertently done can be put right.

 

[Jonny B88]

It was looking quite promising for a spell. and a lot of good stuff had leached out of the wool. View attachment 1043826View attachment 1043827

We've successfully used wool on the veg plot over winter for a couple of years now, but that's with relatively weed free soil. Although we'd had pigs on this bit until it was black, I suppose most of the grass roots were still very much viable and the wool being a bit too thin let just enough light in.

Are you using the mulch to try and create a weed free bed for the spuds to plant into?