"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

not much we can do about it

There is, in many instances. Not so far as ripping out hedges and tearing down walls, but if a dirty great harvester can't turn around in the field then you know what the problem is.

One thing I note here is that paddocks would be the right size for the right number of animals, except those animals are all divvied up into several groups, and that's really what makes their paddocks "too big".

Then, by having animals in ⅓ of the paddocks all the time "the farm isn't big enough to lengthen out the rotation" so even more reliance on machinery and harvesters and specialty crops is often the result of that.

But it doesn't have to be like that at all, because ruminants simply wouldn't be around to farm if it had to be like that... would it?

It's just not considered normal to graze a large number of animals in a small area for a short period of time, despite what evolution and observation of wild herds can show us

 

[Farmer Roy]

Full ep: Breaking New Ground | Australian Story | FULL EP | How Charlie Massy turned his ravaged property into an oasis — and how other farmers can do it too. Watch live with us. | By Australian StoryFacebook

FULL EP | How Charlie Massy turned his ravaged property into an oasis — and how other farmers can do it too. Watch live with us.

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[Henarar]

There is, in many instances. Not so far as ripping out hedges and tearing down walls, but if a dirty great harvester can't turn around in the field then you know what the problem is.

One thing I note here is that paddocks would be the right size for the right number of animals, except those animals are all divvied up into several groups, and that's really what makes their paddocks "too big".

Then, by having animals in ⅓ of the paddocks all the time "the farm isn't big enough to lengthen out the rotation" so even more reliance on machinery and harvesters and specialty crops is often the result of that.

But it doesn't have to be like that at all, because ruminants simply wouldn't be around to farm if it had to be like that... would it?

It's just not considered normal to graze a large number of animals in a small area for a short period of time, despite what evolution and observation of wild herds can show us

I know we can divide them up or put more animals in at one go, you said they were not big enough I just commented that there is not much can be done about that just the same as I tell Clare

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

There's your answer then.....

Many here don't even blow down before putting away at the end of harvest in my experience!

Madness not to

 

[Boso]

There is, in many instances. Not so far as ripping out hedges and tearing down walls, but if a dirty great harvester can't turn around in the field then you know what the problem is.

One thing I note here is that paddocks would be the right size for the right number of animals, except those animals are all divvied up into several groups, and that's really what makes their paddocks "too big".

Then, by having animals in ⅓ of the paddocks all the time "the farm isn't big enough to lengthen out the rotation" so even more reliance on machinery and harvesters and specialty crops is often the result of that.

But it doesn't have to be like that at all, because ruminants simply wouldn't be around to farm if it had to be like that... would it?

It's just not considered normal to graze a large number of animals in a small area for a short period of time, despite what evolution and observation of wild herds can show us

I have al my ewes, lambs (ewe and ram) and often the adult breeding rams in one mob. Saves so much time. Every group takes a daily check, water, energizer checked, fence moved etc. Very time consuming to have a everything split up in a lot of groups.
This one big mob also made it possible to rest pastures 100-150days.
To have some control over lambing and who gets to meet who at a certain all to boys go out. After a month they can get back in.

Apart from the above I have been making paddocks somewhat bigger and moving up to once or twice a week per move have made life much easier atm, compared to doing so daily or three times a week.
I see and understand all the benefits of moving a few times daily but combined with fulltime employment I have found that quality of living is affected to much. With being able to rest for 100-150 days I still feel this is a big step forward from set stocking.

 

[crashbox]

There is, in many instances. Not so far as ripping out hedges and tearing down walls, but if a dirty great harvester can't turn around in the field then you know what the problem is.

One thing I note here is that paddocks would be the right size for the right number of animals, except those animals are all divvied up into several groups, and that's really what makes their paddocks "too big".

Then, by having animals in ⅓ of the paddocks all the time "the farm isn't big enough to lengthen out the rotation" so even more reliance on machinery and harvesters and specialty crops is often the result of that.

But it doesn't have to be like that at all, because ruminants simply wouldn't be around to farm if it had to be like that... would it?

It's just not considered normal to graze a large number of animals in a small area for a short period of time, despite what evolution and observation of wild herds can show us

And we have this wierd habit of splitting groups by size and age. About as far from nature as you can get...

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I know we can divide them up or put more animals in at one go, you said they were not big enough I just commented that there is not much can be done about that just the same as I tell Clare

I said they were too big for us, an acre would be getting closer to it (100 paddocks) but then I'd be limited to a couple of mobs in summer and one in winter, really.

Might still happen yet as I am not particularly convinced we need to have cows

 

[Kiwi Pete]

And we have this wierd habit of splitting groups by size and age. About as far from nature as you can get...

Even by weight groups when it comes to lambs, then when they come in to get weighed it's through an autodrafter thingy, more often than not.
It's not my business what they do but it does tickle me when "that won't work here" because it never does if you are stuck in a rut.

The best option is to stay in the rut and try not to run out of tears and money?

But I would definitely put consolidation as a fair priority in the springtime and early summer, that the big wild herds create their own 'green wave' is no accident, it's designed on what always works best for "the whole thing".
By winter everyone is doing a good job of grazing

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I have al my ewes, lambs (ewe and ram) and often the adult breeding rams in one mob. Saves so much time. Every group takes a daily check, water, energizer checked, fence moved etc. Very time consuming to have a everything split up in a lot of groups.
This one big mob also made it possible to rest pastures 100-150days.
To have some control over lambing and who gets to meet who at a certain all to boys go out. After a month they can get back in.

Apart from the above I have been making paddocks somewhat bigger and moving up to once or twice a week per move have made life much easier atm, compared to doing so daily or three times a week.
I see and understand all the benefits of moving a few times daily but combined with fulltime employment I have found that quality of living is affected to much. With being able to rest for 100-150 days I still feel this is a big step forward from set stocking.

Good one, yes there are a few things to debunk when it comes to getting a really good grazing pattern going, shifting all the animals every few days (in one big group) is sustainable

whereas I would struggle to emulate what we're doing here now solely with portable fencing, I would need to be fulltime and who the heck pays good money to buy themself an extra fulltime job?
Not this joker anyway...

Things I feel I can safely debunk now as folly:
-Leaving longer residuals
-Leaving half the grass standing or trampled, or aiming for selective grazing without good cause
-Untoward acceleration in any season
-Giving animals more space in really wet conditions
-'Going easy' on grazing utilisation in order to return faster

 

[Karliboy]

Apart from the above I have been making paddocks somewhat bigger and moving up to once or twice a week per move have made life much easier atm, compared to doing so daily or three times a week.
I see and understand all the benefits of moving a few times daily but combined with fulltime employment I have found that quality of living is affected to much.

Is this not part of the holistic context as to what works best for yourself though also.

 

[som farmer]

we are excellent in the art of complicating simple jobs, perfected it, in fact.
also know set stocking saves a lot of work, but ruins the sward.

 

[Karliboy]

Never had chicory on the farm before but there’s a few standalone kicking about now admittedly the seed will have been from the herbal bag I got last year and threw a little bit around

Still no rain here yet even this week but it’s trying to green up after 5 days rest. On the right hand side

Looks better for a good clean up

Was getting a few breakouts through fence and then thought bad earth. Much better now I wetted it.
I sat and watched the hose which is mains pressure for 7min on full bore and and all the water disappeared down a crack at the side. Even If I get silly thunderstorms I don’t think I need to worry about run off.

Bumper apple crop. These will be 70 year old trees I bet.

As for trees they really can take some water up and away from the grass so there not the be all and end all that most folk think in my opinion.
Dead as a door nail under trees canopy elsewhere plodding along nicely

 

[Henarar]

Never had chicory on the farm before but there’s a few standalone kicking about now admittedly the seed will have been from the herbal bag I got last year and threw a little bit around View attachment 1057144View attachment 1057150
Still no rain here yet even this week but it’s trying to green up after 5 days rest. On the right hand side
View attachment 1057145
Looks better for a good clean up
View attachment 1057149
Was getting a few breakouts through fence and then thought bad earth. Much better now I wetted it.
I sat and watched the hose which is mains pressure for 7min on full bore and and all the water disappeared down a crack at the side. Even If I get silly thunderstorms I don’t think I need to worry about run off.
View attachment 1057147
Bumper apple crop. These will be 70 year old trees I bet.
View attachment 1057146
As for trees they really can take some water up and away from the grass so there not the be all and end all that most folk think in my opinion.
Dead as a door nail under trees canopy elsewhere plodding along nicely
View attachment 1057148

For and against with trees, I get what you are saying but I have noticed a few places where once you get away from the tree roots the grass has stayed greener where the tree casts its shadow so the grass is not in the burning sun all afternoon

 

[som farmer]

we graze some orchards, this dry weather the cattle quite like them ! Nice and cool, but cattle never seem to graze under the trees tightly, as they do else where.

grass strip below a wood here, even the chicory looks sick, now we have had a bit of rain, will be interesting to see how it recovers. Out of everything we have sown, chicory has been the 'best' performer, basically, other than odd places, as above, it has kept growing, shoots back quickly after grazing.

Next door, is organic conversion, probably yr 3, its some very hungry sandy soil, and had been 'pulled' fairly hard prior to organic. When l say hungry, you can put as much sh1t on it, as you like, and it want's more. Big chunk down to red and white clover, IRG leys. Those leys have been cut twice, and the clover has really grown since cutting, on 3 applications of slurry. Not really what l expected, we live and learn.
And to be fair, our red clover here, has regrown, just not so thick !
Going to be going around the 'seed' stands at our show today, asking about different crops, and, just crossed my mind, this year l can carry all the catalogues, l have wheels, No-one really knows how difficult 2 sticks, and bags, really is.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Is this not part of the holistic context as to what works best for yourself though also.

This [people] is usually the trickiest third to get right.

Especially when it comes down to allocating time, it is much more rewarding to find yourself "firefighting" at home than on the farm

 

[Kiwi Pete]

we graze some orchards, this dry weather the cattle quite like them ! Nice and cool, but cattle never seem to graze under the trees tightly, as they do else where.

grass strip below a wood here, even the chicory looks sick, now we have had a bit of rain, will be interesting to see how it recovers. Out of everything we have sown, chicory has been the 'best' performer, basically, other than odd places, as above, it has kept growing, shoots back quickly after grazing.

Next door, is organic conversion, probably yr 3, its some very hungry sandy soil, and had been 'pulled' fairly hard prior to organic. When l say hungry, you can put as much sh1t on it, as you like, and it want's more. Big chunk down to red and white clover, IRG leys. Those leys have been cut twice, and the clover has really grown since cutting, on 3 applications of slurry. Not really what l expected, we live and learn.
And to be fair, our red clover here, has regrown, just not so thick !
Going to be going around the 'seed' stands at our show today, asking about different crops, and, just crossed my mind, this year l can carry all the catalogues, l have wheels, No-one really knows how difficult 2 sticks, and bags, really is.

One stick is handy, but when you're on two it's nuts what you can't do!
Eating your toast over the toaster and drinking your tea at the bench!

Difficult is an understatement

 

[Fenwick]

For and against with trees, I get what you are saying but I have noticed a few places where once you get away from the tree roots the grass has stayed greener where the tree casts its shadow so the grass is not in the burning sun all afternoon

I have an excellent example of this, i'll post a photo later.

 

[Fenwick]

Root mass to support regrowth from dormancy is not something many of you seem to take into consideration. You stop at leaves.

Absolutely do.

We have had regrowth on the stockpiled forage without any water this summer. The 'normally grazed' spring rotation has just burnt off.

I was AMAZED!!! The only other farmers to have regrowth around here are under irrigation.

Follow a canadian dairy farmer, on u'tube, dry farm, he grows 1100 acres of barley, whole cropped for his 300 cows, lucerne, of course, and some rye. Perhaps we should be looking at w/crop, as the main bulk, instead of grass, or hybrid rye, that we know. With fuel costs, 1 cut, is cheaper than 3 or 4.

Wholecrop is a great way o insuring quality stock early in the year if you are afraid of drought.

We've done it for years and it is very popular in the south of france.

But it is both expensive and energy hungry.

Personally I am thinking that next summer I begin to supplement early-on to ensure the recovery is sufficient: because our rainfall patterns aren't providing much autumnal growth I could feed them then, in the dry, instead of grazing all the grass and then feeding hay.

I think it would be more practical for us to buy (for example) 2 conventional bales per head and feed out over summertime, and just graze grass in the wintertime than buy hay when it's more expensive, and the ground is soft

I saw an american on FB who does exactly that.

I said I'd do a safe to fail trial on that this year, but I will be too low on hay stock to take that risk if it all goes pear shaped.


I did an analysis on ear hair from my cows in early spring. I have only just got the results back.

Clearly on paper, it's not looking to good.

I am looking on how I can correct this.

I was originally planning on using a dosatron. But I am a little concerned about leaks in my water system.
I see that in NZ they have systems like the ORBVIE that float in the water trough. Have any of you any experience with this sort of stuff.

I've added my results below.

Then I went and had a look at the price of a short term solution - Bolus! - Blimey!

We also have very high levels of aluminium, which is a bit worrying.

 

[som farmer]

One stick is handy, but when you're on two it's nuts what you can't do!
Eating your toast over the toaster and drinking your tea at the bench!

Difficult is an understatement

for anybody that get's down to needing a stick, try 2, it seriously helps to keep your posture, might be a bloody nuisance, but it really is better for you. I'm glad l had to start on 2, and had to stay with them. But it really keeps you upright.
p1ssing nuisance trying to carry anything though, refuse to have a 'man bag' round my neck.
But quite enjoyed my scooter today, cheap at £24 for the day.
We talk about bad drivers, they are nothing compared to pedestrians, they just step in front of you, ignore you etc, unbelievable.

 

[som farmer]

Had a good day, looking for alternative crops to grow, if this climate is changing, other than herbal leys, that sorted of seemed the limit. 1 exception was a germinal man, who is keen on looking at alternatives, 'things' in the pipeline, that will role out over the next few years, not a lot yet. The other interesting point he made, virtually no-one interested, farming side, that did surprise me, because we really should be looking.