"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

why not think in sq, meters a day that way you in increase or decrease the area grazed.depending weather and growth
another wacky thing done in the past was to fence of parts of the paddock not needed that day. and silage them .it might cause problems with your other work but.

Been there and done that. It works well enough.
That's basically a rotational grazing system with rational elements thrown in, maybe it's just my mindset but often it pulls your mind back to the cattle's needs instead of the whole landscape?

I'm more looking at maintaining the same stocking density and altering the speed of movement to suit, than altering the stocking density to suit the mood, because the effectiveness of the grazing seems closely linked to how tight they are herded together.

I have done lots of experiments here and it appears that by next grazing the pastures are very even if the stocking density is constant - even if they graze lower sometimes and higher sometimes.
And, if I vary the areas then the paddock is quite patchy by comparison, where they are spread out there is less growth and they don't seem to like the grass as much even though to many it is "great quality stuff" the stock don't agree

 

[marco]

I'm not sure I followed the last bit pete, should I or shouldn't I (in the real world) be sowing herbal leys? Or should I just "manage" what I've got but cutting down the numer of groups I have and use high impact short duration grazing? This is the big question I think for me after watching Allen williams video "building soil the southern way" where he changed the species in his paddocks through grazing management rather than reseeding even though it was ex cotton ground. And he said about the species changing nearly every year for the first few years as he went through the successional plants?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I can't say one way or the other is better, but I know in my own mind which is the better way for me to progress... I think some folk simply replace inputs with inputs in regards to the local regenerative ag scene.
I'm already a "do nothing now" type of guy and so the best way to sustainable diversity for us is to use the seedbank we bought with the land. There's maybe 30 different species in our pasture? And they have (and continue to) simply select themselves - diversity is stability

That grazing management changes EVERYTHING is very evident driving around here, I drive a fert truck around farms by day and you seldom ever need ask where the neighbour's boundary fence is; the differences are usually visible from space, even on "unimproved" rangeland.

So for me that's the direction I want to take this, as it really isn't difficult to add new species to the mix.
It becomes even easier if you can have the right infrastructure to properly manage the grazing parameters and gain a good understanding of your own holistic goal and the processes that are going on.

But that's just me, this land was good when we first looked it over and we've just tweaked things due to my own understanding and learning - however in some ways it feels like I've simply been wasting time and effort after seeing some better tools in action - like the techno, which is really just an funnel to pour your grazing plan into and make the "plan, monitor, replan" feedback loop such a simple thing, as you do it with every mob at every move.
You see what is in front, in their current paddock, whats behind them, and what half their planned recovery looks like, their gutfill and general mood etc and so you instantly are testing the plan

I guess that was what I was trying to say before to @graham99 but I had old mate yacking in my ear at the time

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Zoom in on this, see what I mean about "boundary fence syndrome"?

Why are all the thistles downwind of all that nice clean pasture?
That's simply down to better grazing, it isn't like you simply go and top a 4000 acre block when you are a single man who has 10000 acres to look after. Nor does he use any fert or lime, just feet and time.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

@marco it does also make a difference as to what grasses and forbs you have to manage, as well.

If I had ryegrass/white clover pastures then I would change that with any available means,, but I would be unlikely to replace those just with short-term or annuals either unless I needed to for some specific reason.
But that's just me, I'd go for an old fashioned meadow mix as that has stood the test of time down here - with or without manicuring and fert and lime etc, it keeps going - permanence is highly underrated

 

[marco]

@marco it does also make a difference as to what grasses and forbs you have to manage, as well.

If I had ryegrass/white clover pastures then I would change that with any available means,, but I would be unlikely to replace those just with short-term or annuals either unless I needed to for some specific reason.
But that's just me, I'd go for an old fashioned meadow mix as that has stood the test of time down here - with or without manicuring and fert and lime etc, it keeps going - permanence is highly underrated

I was thinking of stitching some legumes into my permanent pastures just to give them a kickstart. Although having done a small bit of recreational mob grazing with cows on silage type crop only to see a flush of clover come afterwards for the soil seed bank I'm reluctant to invest too much in the magic seed[emoji2]

 

[Crofter64]

I was thinking of stitching some legumes into my permanent pastures just to give them a kickstart. Although having done a small bit of recreational mob grazing with cows on silage type crop only to see a flush of clover come afterwards for the soil seed bank I'm reluctant to invest too much in the magic seed[emoji2]

The most important thing I’ve learned from following Pete’s journey is the importance of having a goal and to test every decision and expense against that goal. It is so easy to invest in stuff, machinery, genetics because it seems like a good idea, everyone thinks it is. But does it lead you closer to your goal? The second thing is use animals as much as possible to do as many jobs on the farm as possible.Third, don’t spend money unless it is absolutely, unavoidably necessary to get you to your goal.
We all know this in some way or another. It makes sense. until now I didn’t have the understanding to discipline my actions towards my goal( well actually, we don’t have a formal goal written down but we will be doing some serious brainstorming and goal setting this week. Its on the calendar- sent to us by @Fonterafarmer).
I think its a good excercise before spring.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I'm just as guilty of that one, eg I have a whole raft of kit that won't be used that I "had to have" when we went ranching because I thought farming was going to be money for jam and contracting would help financially.

It did pay for the gear but it did use my time and tractor hours as well - and now I have a heap of redundant "assets" AKA liability

On the plus side most of it will not have depreciated one bit, so the goal is to raffle it off to fund things that will work us towards our goals on our "mission statement"

People first
Regenerate the biome
Consider the harm first
Don't make work

 

[Danllan]

...It did pay for the gear but it did use my time and tractor hours as well - and now I have a heap of redundant "assets" AKA liability

On the plus side most of it will not have depreciated one bit, so the goal is to raffle it off to fund things that will work us towards our goals on our "mission statement"...

Have you ever been to a place that hasn't?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Have you ever been to a place that hasn't?

Very few. It doesn't stop the owners of the "assets" moaning about the lack of cash to do things with.... but it isn't so hard to sell things if you completely eliminate the requirement for them.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Have you ever been to a place that hasn't?

I did smile at this stash of "assets" not far from Pete

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I did smile at this stash of "assets" not far from Pete

View attachment 769760

See, there's all the utter sh!t that people think they need to have.
Life goes on without it, and you hang onto your money instead of keeping bearings and inner tubes up to it all

Did you see anything there that was capable of growing from sunshine and reproducing itself?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

See, there's all the utter sh!t that people think they need to have.
Life goes on without it, and you hang onto your money instead of keeping bearings and inner tubes up to it all

Did you see anything there that was capable of growing from sunshine and reproducing itself?

Yes, rust

 

[Henarar]

Have you ever been to a place that hasn't?

but it may come in handy

 

[Henarar]

See, there's all the utter sh!t that people think they need to have.
Life goes on without it, and you hang onto your money instead of keeping bearings and inner tubes up to it all

Did you see anything there that was capable of growing from sunshine and reproducing itself?

I can't say anything with the amount of stuff we have about the place, put it this way if we had a sale twood take a few hours, but that said our contacting bill is very low as in there isn't one

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Very few. It doesn't stop the owners of the "assets" moaning about the lack of cash to do things with.... but it isn't so hard to sell things if you completely eliminate the requirement for them.

As part of the Holistic Financial Planning course I'm currently doing with @Sheila Cooke I worked out what it actually costs us to house the cattle in winter here. Including my time at £20/hr (which I can easily earn off farm) it came to £380 per cow/calf pair

I also worked out that it costs around 7 weeks of my time per year (normal townie 40 hour weeks that is )

 

[onesiedale]

I reckon that wintering stock outside is one of the biggest cost savings we have made on our farm. This year we managed to have all the R1s and R2's out along with probably 10% of the cows. My aim for next winter is for 50 % of the cows.

 

[Treg]

I look at machinery in a very different way, as long as it's purchased sensibly & looked after it is a liquid asset .
I buy smallish tractors & machinery to suit them , these always have a market outside of agriculture & the last 4 tractors I 've turned in have had buyers waiting for them + they didn't drop in value!
If I'm ill and can't work again ( or die) the machinery + livestock could be sold to give me a pension , without touching the main asset of the farm which the family can then carry on with ( if they wish to )
I wish my dad had managed to keep hold of his old David Browns, I think he sold them for a few hundred in the late 80s they'd now be worth a few thousand .
In 91 he was paying £1500 for cow's & bought a farm for £1350 acre , cows are still the same money ( if not less ) but we can probably stick another 0 on the end of the land value!
Not much makes sense in farming, so just saying

 

[Henarar]

As part of the Holistic Financial Planning course I'm currently doing with @Sheila Cooke I worked out what it actually costs us to house the cattle in winter here. Including my time at £20/hr (which I can easily earn off farm) out came to £380 per cow/calf pair

I also worked out that it costs around 7 weeks of my time per year (normal townie 40 hour weeks that is )

what can you do about it ?

 

[Henarar]

as long as it's purchased sensibly

important bit