"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Sharpy]

It’s not unique to Australia.
I took these this afternoon. Heavily over-grazed by horses on one side (we’ve just rescinded their grazing licence) and cut for silage (I know....) on the 19th May on the other side
View attachment 887755View attachment 887756View attachment 887757

Sorry they’re on their side. Damn you iphone..

PS I should have said that the new fencing in the picture is because the starving horses broke the old fence reaching through....

Weapons of grass destruction...…...

 

[Kiwi Pete]

It’s not unique to Australia.
I took these this afternoon. Heavily over-grazed by horses on one side (we’ve just rescinded their grazing licence) and cut for silage (I know....) on the 19th May on the other side
View attachment 887755View attachment 887756View attachment 887757

Sorry they’re on their side. Damn you iphone..

PS I should have said that the new fencing in the picture is because the starving horses broke the old fence reaching through....

I didn't get a photo when we had the last grazing discussion group through but there was a great photo op, all the neighbour's sheep creaking the boundary fence to try get a bite, while the sheep on our side were all sitting down cudding watching them do it.
"Controlled Starvation" in an attempt to cycle feed that should have been grazed properly 8 months prior.. because he cannot be bothered it's just rank by winter. And a very low stocking rate is the outcome

 

[Whitewalker]

Started the bedtime reading.

 

[Farmer Roy]

View attachment 887838
It's a bugger how these problems seem to stop at the boundary fence....

but there is always a “reason”

like someone commented on my photos - people DO see over the fence & DO see the differences, however - they DONT always observe or understand the reasons for those differences . . .
Or are unwilling to understand . . .

or are nervous of change - as Pete said earlier, in very uncertain times, it’s easier to hang onto what you know . . .

it can be very scary to “step off the cliff edge”

 

[Farmer Roy]

In the example of my photos, the “reason” for the difference is all the rain apparently runs off the neighbours into mine ( it does ), which doesn’t really address why the rain runs off the neighbours in the first place . . .
the only land over the fence that has any ground cover is covered with galvanised burr, a short spiky inedible plant which the sheep won’t eat.
But - it is performing its landscape function of being a pioneer species ( this was literally bare soil & rock 4 months ago ) & trying to protect the soil

 

[Farmer Roy]

Yes, that’s fog in that photo

we are quite low here at 270 m

a heavy dew this morning, combined with this fog, is probably equivalent to getting 5 mm rain

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yes, that’s fog in that photo

we are quite low here at 270 m

a heavy dew this morning, combined with this fog, is probably equivalent to getting 5 mm rain

That's the massive difference, isn't it? Not all available moisture IS rain. We get a lot of fog and nearly every night is dewy. It all counts!

Love the galvanised burr, we get none of that type of groundcover here of course ... it's quite an education as to just how nature tries to fix the problems.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

but there is always a “reason”

like someone commented on my photos - people DO see over the fence & DO see the differences, however - they DONT always observe or understand the reasons for those differences . . .
Or are unwilling to understand . . .

or are nervous of change - as Pete said earlier, in very uncertain times, it’s easier to hang onto what you know . . .

it can be very scary to “step off the cliff edge”

It's odd how different our observations (and outcomes) can get, even between sheep farmers or cow farmers (using the same tools) the results can be so overwhelmingly different.

There's a local by the name of J R who is in his 80's, owns a massive ranch down the bush.

He said to me last time we were having a yarn that it's like the last 2 generations have farmed with their eyes shut - all about production of heavier and heavier animals, heavier and heavier crops - but they "just can't see a damn thing beyond that"

"they think they're making good progress and I think they're wrecking the landscape" were his words

 

[Woolless]

It's pretty good, as an ex-dairyman I couldn't see it til I did it!

One thing I am slightly confused about is that calving takes place at peak pasture growth but the cow's peak energy demand will be at peak lactation two/three months later, when the bull is likely to be in. I suppose calving to match that would be back to early-ish spring and so limited grass available at that point?

 

[Woolless]

That's the massive difference, isn't it? Not all available moisture IS rain. We get a lot of fog and nearly every night is dewy. It all counts!

Love the galvanised burr, we get none of that type of groundcover here of course ... it's quite an education as to just how nature tries to fix the problems.

We've had fairly thick haar here for most of the last week. Gives the grass a drink but does little to lift spirits!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

One thing I am slightly confused about is that calving takes place at peak pasture growth but the cow's peak energy demand will be at peak lactation two/three months later, when the bull is likely to be in. I suppose calving to match that would be back to early-ish spring and so limited grass available at that point?

Yes, straight away the cow is depleting her reserves to feed her calf - for no really valid reason that I can find other than having a bigger calf to feed during its first winter.
By calving later there is no energy deficit and usually a surplus, which means less trouble with metabolic issues and breeding back, less feeding for the smaller calf over winter and less milk demand on the cow as the calf has something to eat as well.
Otherwise deer would fawn in the spring "naturally" rather than when the landscape's energy supply is at its peak

 

[som farmer]

I do agree that cows shouldn't be put in calf just to shoot the calf, I remember late 70's early 80's going with dad taking calves to market and everything would find a home, dad use to take jersey bull calves for a neighbour and even they would sell, progress ?

yes, and Sturminster used to peak at 3,000 calves a week ! Where have they all gone ?

 

[Woolless]

Yes, straight away the cow is depleting her reserves to feed her calf - for no really valid reason that I can find other than having a bigger calf to feed during its first winter.
By calving later there is no energy deficit and usually a surplus, which means less trouble with metabolic issues and breeding back, less feeding for the smaller calf over winter and less milk demand on the cow as the calf has something to eat as well.
Otherwise deer would fawn in the spring "naturally" rather than when the landscape's energy supply is at its peak

Yes, Jim Gerrish points to bison calving season falling then and they are reproductively very similar to a cow. I'm convinced I think. My other counter-argument with my current set-up would be that calving in April would coincide with lambing when I'm about anyway.

Did you start to calve dairy cows later when you were on that job?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yes, Jim Gerrish points to bison calving season falling then and they are reproductively very similar to a cow. I'm convinced I think. My other counter-argument with my current set-up would be that calving in April would coincide with lambing when I'm about anyway.

Did you start to calve dairy cows later when you were on that job?

I did try ?‍ but I realised I was only "the manager" when I wanted to manage things the way everyone else manages dairy herds.

Otherwise the neighbours asked the owner what was going on, and he didn't like that because he didn't know there was life beyond following a recipe - even if the recipe was costing him a ton of profit

 

[Henarar]

yes, and Sturminster used to peak at 3,000 calves a week ! Where have they all gone ?

use to be far more in taunton market than there is at sedge

 

[som farmer]

use to be far more in taunton market than there is at sedge

but all those calves found a home, till BSE, a lot went for export, mainly BB and B+W bull calves, but if the market for those B+W bull calves, were to re-open, the difference in calves, would be enormous, in those 24 years, the hol influence on the calves, had changed them that much !

 

[tinsheet]

use to be far more in taunton market than there is at sedge

Used to number calves as a sat morning job when God was a boy, regularly 1000+ a week, with 2 rings selling them, pushed 2000 several times. (Pre BSE )

 

[Whitewalker]

I did try ?‍ but I realised I was only "the manager" when I wanted to manage things the way everyone else manages dairy herds.

Otherwise the neighbours asked the owner what was going on, and he didn't like that because he didn't know there was life beyond following a recipe - even if the recipe was costing him a ton of profit

we went from September calving moving right round to January, to remove a really long winter. It has worked well . Could we go any later Hmmmmm that would need more consideration. ?

 

[Whitewalker]

but all those calves found a home, till BSE, a lot went for export, mainly BB and B+W bull calves, but if the market for those B+W bull calves, were to re-open, the difference in calves, would be enormous, in those 24 years, the hol influence on the calves, had changed them that much !

We have a neighbour had lovely big square Holstein cows , not extreme . He bred his own suckler heifers before quitting milk . Over 13 years later he said the Holstein influences were still coming through in his stock .

 

[JohnGalway]

I did try ?‍ but I realised I was only "the manager" when I wanted to manage things the way everyone else manages dairy herds.

Otherwise the neighbours asked the owner what was going on, and he didn't like that because he didn't know there was life beyond following a recipe - even if the recipe was costing him a ton of profit

I have a notion to set up a micro dairy - if you saw my land you'd laugh at that. Anyway, one of the conundrums I have with it is the calving date would have to much earlier in the year than for beef, I intend to capatalise on the affluent Summer residents hereabouts.