- Location
- Devon
I think organic is better, but I don't know the science.
The P will also be helping.
As will the liming effect.
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
The P will also be helping.
As will the liming effect.
ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
fab pic pete - remind me if you can - was each square 12 hours or were you moving them 3x a day?
talking thistles ive just been topping a few - i wont make it to them before they seed - and as much as im managing for the land im choosing the animals on this round..
talking thistles ive just been topping a few - i wont make it to them before they seed - and as much as im managing for the land im choosing the animals on this round..
- Location
- West Somerset
4th pass getting ahead of them really, 0.8 acre cells 25 steers 450kg average (guess) 24 / 36 hr moves.
Really should get them in to weigh them, my eye tells me their motoring!
Experimenting on moves in this field, felt they were leaving to much on 24hr moves 1st pic 24 hr move 2nd is 36 hr move.
36hr move below, staff getting good at moving fences now, keeps telling me i need more cattle in this mob, to much grass dad!
Excuse the thistles, topped one field and leaving this one see if theres any comparison.
2nd year reseed Organic, so we don't spray fertilize Etc. to be fair the grass is crowding them out.
Really should get them in to weigh them, my eye tells me their motoring!
Experimenting on moves in this field, felt they were leaving to much on 24hr moves 1st pic 24 hr move 2nd is 36 hr move.
36hr move below, staff getting good at moving fences now, keeps telling me i need more cattle in this mob, to much grass dad!
Excuse the thistles, topped one field and leaving this one see if theres any comparison.
2nd year reseed Organic, so we don't spray fertilize Etc. to be fair the grass is crowding them out.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Hard to say.
I tried very hard to avoid 'a recipe', each lane is about 30 paces wide but the actual shifting frequency varied a lot. Somewhere between ten minutes and ten hours.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
To add to the above post, @ShooTa , they've averaged about 16.5m² per head per 24hrs, over the last 115 days.
That's about 30m x 45m but how that's allocated is up to how I feel on the day.
The objective shifts a bit and so do our methods, some areas need more manure, others need more trample. Some just need a quick graze on the way by.
That's about 30m x 45m but how that's allocated is up to how I feel on the day.
The objective shifts a bit and so do our methods, some areas need more manure, others need more trample. Some just need a quick graze on the way by.
- Location
- Hertfordshire
It’s very hard to judge from photographs but I’d say you’d taken too much grass in the bottom photos.
I’ve mentally adjusted (finally) to the point where I don’t think “I’ve left too much”, instead I think “I’ve left plenty of solar panels behind to grow extra grass for next time, in addition to what’s already left there, for when the cattle come back in a few weeks’ time”.
- Location
- Hertfordshire
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
I'll give it a go....
- Location
- Devon
Just to follow up on this, heifers went into a paddock which included a corner of chicken pooped grass last night.
By the time I'd pulled the water in, they were all crowded on the chicken pooped bit
Slightly relieved tbh that it wasn't the other way round
- Location
- Derbyshire UK
Now that's interesting. You would think they would avoid it, high in nitrates etc be like grass around their own poo pats. Like you say could be something to do with a balance of nutrients; calcium, P & N, or they just prefer chicken flavour grass!
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Cattle almost always seek out last round's urine patches first, it must be like cow candy. They steer away from their dung though.
I guess an animal puts herself into the mineral cycle as well as she's able to?
Sheep will eat right up to the cow cake though, suggests to me that ruminants instinctively keep away from their own dung because it'll not do them much good.
But, other species they probably don't worry much about?
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
Now ,just to be clear, would fluffhead be the man or the sheep?
yes I know I have more fluff on my head than Flufffhead at the momentNow ,just to be clear, would fluffhead be the man or the sheep?
Must get @farmerclare to take the shears to it
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
From Acres USA:
Feed the Soil, the Plant and the Leaf: The Principles of Fertility
By JON FRANK
During my first year making fertility recommendations for gardens, I made a wrong assumption. I had witnessed the steady fertility gains made in row crops with relatively modest fertility inputs.
I copied what was working in row crops to the newly developed garden program and was surprised to find a failure in the making. The level of reserve fertility was in significant decline – especially calcium and trace minerals. To compensate, I had to dramatically increase the nutrients I recommended, and that fixed the problem.
Vegetables remove far more earth minerals that grains, pastures and fruit trees – by a factor of 2-10 times. This difference in crop removal has to be accounted for by increasing fertility inputs.
As I learned the principles of Reams teaching, I began to make a connection. Everything he taught in the abstract with detailed theory ultimately led to specific actions and inputs. What started in the theoretical always ended up with practical application. After more time listening to Dr. Carey Reams’ audio courses, it dawned on me that all these actions and inputs could be consigned to three basic ideas.
• Feed the Soil
• Feed the Plant
• Feed the Leaf
Feed the Soil is about optimizing soil toward an ideal pattern. Feed the Plant is about giving a helping hand to the microbe/plant root barter system. Feed the Leaf is about foliar nutrition to further enhance yield and to deliver trace minerals.
The greatest success in Reams Agriculture comes when all three “buckets” are used in a complete program. Without a doubt, the greatest quantity of inputs is needed to Feed the Soil. The other buckets take far fewer inputs. The rest of this article will discuss the inputs needed to Feed the Soil.
But first let’s address the question of why. Why use inputs? Because the proper use of inputs, with the help of plants and microbes, completely changes the pattern of the soil.
Imagine a chef commissioned to make the world’s best chocolate cake in less than four hours. What is he going to do? First, he is going to find the very best chocolate cake recipe, then he his going to assemble the finest ingredients, and lastly he is going to follow the recipe meticulously.
The highest-quality cake is made with very specific levels of ingredients in very tight ratio with each other. Anything added too much or little or out of balance with other ingredients can completely ruin the cake. Just triple the salt and baking soda and the cake is not fit to eat.
The same with soil. Instead of calling it a recipe, we call it a pattern. The pattern of soil is determined by the levels and ratios of available minerals. If we want a better output of high-quality crops or nutrient-dense foods, then we must create the proper pattern in soil. You can’t get a prize-winning cake with a lousy recipe, and neither can you achieve nutrient-dense produce with deficient or imbalanced soil. You have to meet nature’s requirements if you want top quality.
Let’s illustrate this with a typical soil test followed up by a decode of the soil pattern, shown in the image above. All nutrients are in pounds per acre on the Morgan soil test.
To calculate the ratio, take the lab result for the first nutrient and divide it by the lab result of the second nutrient. To calculate the calcium to magnesium ratio, divide 900 by 125 to get 7.2. This soil has a Ca:Ma ratio of 7.2:1.
This general pattern is found all over the south and the eastern third of the United States. But in many instances the soils have even less fertility than this example. So, what does this pattern tell us? Here is the decode.
See the original here:
www.ecofarmingdaily.com
Feed the Soil, the Plant and the Leaf: The Principles of Fertility
By JON FRANK
During my first year making fertility recommendations for gardens, I made a wrong assumption. I had witnessed the steady fertility gains made in row crops with relatively modest fertility inputs.
I copied what was working in row crops to the newly developed garden program and was surprised to find a failure in the making. The level of reserve fertility was in significant decline – especially calcium and trace minerals. To compensate, I had to dramatically increase the nutrients I recommended, and that fixed the problem.
Vegetables remove far more earth minerals that grains, pastures and fruit trees – by a factor of 2-10 times. This difference in crop removal has to be accounted for by increasing fertility inputs.
As I learned the principles of Reams teaching, I began to make a connection. Everything he taught in the abstract with detailed theory ultimately led to specific actions and inputs. What started in the theoretical always ended up with practical application. After more time listening to Dr. Carey Reams’ audio courses, it dawned on me that all these actions and inputs could be consigned to three basic ideas.
• Feed the Soil
• Feed the Plant
• Feed the Leaf
Feed the Soil is about optimizing soil toward an ideal pattern. Feed the Plant is about giving a helping hand to the microbe/plant root barter system. Feed the Leaf is about foliar nutrition to further enhance yield and to deliver trace minerals.
The greatest success in Reams Agriculture comes when all three “buckets” are used in a complete program. Without a doubt, the greatest quantity of inputs is needed to Feed the Soil. The other buckets take far fewer inputs. The rest of this article will discuss the inputs needed to Feed the Soil.
But first let’s address the question of why. Why use inputs? Because the proper use of inputs, with the help of plants and microbes, completely changes the pattern of the soil.
Imagine a chef commissioned to make the world’s best chocolate cake in less than four hours. What is he going to do? First, he is going to find the very best chocolate cake recipe, then he his going to assemble the finest ingredients, and lastly he is going to follow the recipe meticulously.
The highest-quality cake is made with very specific levels of ingredients in very tight ratio with each other. Anything added too much or little or out of balance with other ingredients can completely ruin the cake. Just triple the salt and baking soda and the cake is not fit to eat.
The same with soil. Instead of calling it a recipe, we call it a pattern. The pattern of soil is determined by the levels and ratios of available minerals. If we want a better output of high-quality crops or nutrient-dense foods, then we must create the proper pattern in soil. You can’t get a prize-winning cake with a lousy recipe, and neither can you achieve nutrient-dense produce with deficient or imbalanced soil. You have to meet nature’s requirements if you want top quality.
Let’s illustrate this with a typical soil test followed up by a decode of the soil pattern, shown in the image above. All nutrients are in pounds per acre on the Morgan soil test.
To calculate the ratio, take the lab result for the first nutrient and divide it by the lab result of the second nutrient. To calculate the calcium to magnesium ratio, divide 900 by 125 to get 7.2. This soil has a Ca:Ma ratio of 7.2:1.
This general pattern is found all over the south and the eastern third of the United States. But in many instances the soils have even less fertility than this example. So, what does this pattern tell us? Here is the decode.
- • 16 lbs. of available phosphorous indicates low Brix and poor energy production in the plant. The energy cycle in plants depends on phosphorous, since it is the P in ATP.
- • 290 lbs. of potassium signifies there will be a crop.
- • Calcium at 900 lbs. means low yield, very poor root development, and inadequate feeding of soil microbes. Inputs to help the microbes are needed.
- • Magnesium at 125 lbs. is a sufficient amount for leaf function, but still low.
- • The P:K ratio of 0.05:1 indicates broadleaf weed pressure.
- • The Ca:Ma ratio of 7.2:1 indicates a soil that is workable and not sticky.
- • The extreme Ca ratio of 196:1 further highlights how critically low phosphorous is and suggests insect and disease susceptibility. If copper is also low and the year is wet, you might see a fungal attack.
- • The Ca:K ratio of 3:1 is the other extreme. Such a high level of potassium relative to calcium indicates poor cellular integrity of the crop. This happens when potassium substitutes for calcium in the cell walls.
- Altogether, this is the pattern of a depleted soil. This soil can not produce high Brix or nutrient-dense food or crops in the near future. Animals eating forages grown on this soil will not perform well. The good news is that this soil is easy to fix. The bad news is that it is not cheap.
- Inputs to grow the upcoming crop and improve the overall soil pattern could include the following:
- • Soft rock phosphate
- • Low-magnesium limestone
- • 11-52-0 mono-ammonium phosphate
- • Calcium nitrate
- • Epsom salt
- What is not suggested for this year is an application of compost or manure. They should be avoided because potassium will increase, and it is already too high.
- A complete feeding to the soil will impact roots and microbes. As the pattern changes toward ideal crop health, yield improves, and so does the nourishment of people and animals.
- Next month we will cover the inputs to Feed the Plant and Feed the Leaf. In the meantime, I hope you are enjoying a diet of nutrient-dense foods and that occasional slice of decadent chocolate cake.
See the original here:
Feed the Soil, the Plant and the Leaf: The Principles of Fertility | EcoFarming Daily
Vegetables remove far more earth minerals that grains, pastures and fruit trees – by a factor of 2-10 times. This difference in crop removal has to be accounted for by increasing fertility inputs.
www.ecofarmingdaily.com
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
I just ordered it from Acres along with Nicole Masters book.
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
I once had to butcher a ram , in situ, where it had been gored by a steer with horns( never kept horns on cattle again) while horsing around and all the cattle and sheep came to lick up some blood. I imagine they were taking in iron while it was available.Cattle almost always seek out last round's urine patches first, it must be like cow candy. They steer away from their dung though.
I guess an animal puts herself into the mineral cycle as well as she's able to?
Sheep will eat right up to the cow cake though, suggests to me that ruminants instinctively keep away from their own dung because it'll not do them much good.
But, other species they probably don't worry much about?
ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
cheers - pete - so the laneways were the days allocation and the sub divisions based on feel/intent
- Location
- Isle of Skye
So, our plans to keep sheep off our home ground until weaning haven't quite worked out, the fields away which we've been grazing on a more standard rotation aren't recovering quite fast enough and I believe grazing short stuff has led to an obvious worm burden. We've dosed the lambs a few times and also a couple of ewes that were struggling.
Still, we can't complain as we've managed to keep them off our home fields until now, last year we had slightly less sheep in and we had to graze here much earlier, the extra time has allowed the legumes to go to seed, the sheep will hopefully eat a lot and spread them around.
We could have weaned lambs this week I suppose but most of them not yet at 90 days old and many not as big as we'd like them to be. So brought the lot home to graze/trample the longer stuff, we'd planned on just ewes coming home so we could really tighten them up for trampling but we'll have to ease them up a bit to ensure lambs are not going hungry and getting set back.
Planning to give approx 0.4ha daily split into two 0.2ha each day, below is what they trampled yesterday evening.
They seem to have managed to avoid stepping on a single thistle or dock, so gave them a quick swirl round with the dogs before moving them this morning. They still managed to leave them all!!. When it stops raining I might nip round with the strimmer and knock the tops off them.
The last one is where they are this morning. Very wet today and the forecast is more rain which really helps get the stuff trampled down but I'd like some dry days to get the wool off them.
Still, we can't complain as we've managed to keep them off our home fields until now, last year we had slightly less sheep in and we had to graze here much earlier, the extra time has allowed the legumes to go to seed, the sheep will hopefully eat a lot and spread them around.
We could have weaned lambs this week I suppose but most of them not yet at 90 days old and many not as big as we'd like them to be. So brought the lot home to graze/trample the longer stuff, we'd planned on just ewes coming home so we could really tighten them up for trampling but we'll have to ease them up a bit to ensure lambs are not going hungry and getting set back.
Planning to give approx 0.4ha daily split into two 0.2ha each day, below is what they trampled yesterday evening.
They seem to have managed to avoid stepping on a single thistle or dock, so gave them a quick swirl round with the dogs before moving them this morning. They still managed to leave them all!!. When it stops raining I might nip round with the strimmer and knock the tops off them.
The last one is where they are this morning. Very wet today and the forecast is more rain which really helps get the stuff trampled down but I'd like some dry days to get the wool off them.