"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[som farmer]

regenative ag, is getting popular, quite a bit, in this months dairy farmer.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Lmao they are fat pigs!! I was just thinking maybe there will be some mineral boost from the herbs.... or is this me being mad

It does have benefits, (the minerals) but it could be as well to just carry about your daily business ,stay with your plan - and "just do whatever feels right". They have all their eggs in them by the time they have their first suck as a lamb, and if they're in good condition (tick!) then they will shed all the eggs they want to shed.

just my tuppence!

 

[Rob Garrett]

Went for a walk last eavening across the small valley and looked back at our place and saw that a slope was looking very dark green compared to rest of the field.View attachment 916548
Flat bit was reseded 5yrs ago after sweeds and a cut of silage last year.
Slope had a good rest while silage was growing, i turned the ewes on it after weanig and they flatend a fair bit of it and had 5 heffers on in begining of november and ewes during last febuary storms.
View attachment 916551
This was after grazing last febuary, fair bit of dead grass there.
Going to give flat bit some compost next spring.
Hope with the right grazing i can get rest of the place looking similar to the slope.

Exciting stuff this grass wasting job, what's the soil like under your sloping ground? Worms worms & more worms on that deferred grazing here. Just got back to that cell I left on last round, grass has held up surprisingly well, a few slimy patches so pleased I went early. Bales set out on a grid this year 2/cell + back fence, given how wet it is holding up well.

 

[Rob Garrett]

It does have benefits, (the minerals) but it could be as well to just carry about your daily business ,stay with your plan - and "just do whatever feels right". They have all their eggs in them by the time they have their first suck as a lamb, and if they're in good condition (tick!) then they will shed all the eggs they want to shed.

just my tuppence!

Find that with these Lleyns, prolific enough without having to flush them. Got to watch that body condition score though, ewes too fat come lambing and you will have more assists than using a square tup! When's best time to work off that fat do you think?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Find that with these Lleyns, prolific enough without having to flush them. Got to watch that body condition score though, ewes too fat come lambing and you will have more assists than using a square tup! When's best time to work off that fat do you think?

I really don't know!
I tended to buy ewe lambs, lamb them then sell them off looking good for crazy money (double what I pay for them) at the Easter sales, ready for the tup.
Ideally you just want to feed them constantly, rather than too well, throughout pregnancy - especially lambing shearlings as they mostly only carry singles. Have had a few stuck lambs this year but his hoggs have grown really well, it's a tradeoff I guess.

 

[GC74]

Sewage, simple as!

Badly run sewage works discharging poorly treated or untreated sewage. I read of a number of cases while I was there in 2017 and have seen industry insiders talking about the appalling NZ sewage industry effectiveness since.

Yes 100% correct there but it's a taboo to even suggest that it could be a problem here. It's OK though. It's been worked on and also towns are only on 1% of the rivers. So in the short term agriculture has to be stopped because farmers are polluting because we are driven purely by greed!!!!
I could go on but I won't. There is certainly a lot of problems to be sorted out and will need lots of money thrown at them!

Changing nitrate levels in groundwater is a VERY long term project. Our high groundwater nitrate levels in England all began with the ploughing out of grassland in WW2 under the "dig for victory" campaign to feed the population. It's well established that ploughing out permanent pasture releases huge quantities of N for decades afterwards as the soil biology collapses. Capturing it again effectively takes just as long.

I wasn't aware that England also had issues with high nitrate levels, also I had totally forgotten about n release from cultivation guess I was only thinking of burning carbon. I better pull my socks up.

 

[Fenwick]

I have an off topic question regarding Natura 2000, what are the landowners allowed to do in those areas now? How were they received, and how are they thought of now?

In France when you rent, it is as if you own thé Land. In fact Most farmers would rather rent than buy. it's yours, and for life.

thé two farms i know of under natura 2000 have had no problèms whatsoever. however they are both organic grazing opérations. and grazing without spray or fert poses no problèms.

thé farm i was talking about in my previous post also is part if a 'bassin versant'. (which is linked to thé watershed). this is more restrictive and means they cannot graze on parts of thé farm at all. and they are not allowed to outwinter cattle on any part of thé farm.

i could have Taken this farm on a few years back. thèse restrictions were one of thé reasons i didn't. (shame, as they have some of thé best soils in France).

personally, i'm not too afraid of natura 2000.

i'm more concernéd about future laws concerning carbon.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Yes 100% correct there but it's a taboo to even suggest that it could be a problem here. It's OK though. It's been worked on and also towns are only on 1% of the rivers. So in the short term agriculture has to be stopped because farmers are polluting because we are driven purely by greed!!!!
I could go on but I won't. There is certainly a lot of problems to be sorted out and will need lots of money thrown at them!

I wasn't aware that England also had issues with high nitrate levels, also I had totally forgotten about n release from cultivation guess I was only thinking of burning carbon. I better pull my socks up.

Most of England was declared a "Nitrate vulnerable zone" over a decade ago with restrictions on Nitrogen use and organic manure application. So far the restrictions have made little difference to nitrate levels.

 

[som farmer]

Yes 100% correct there but it's a taboo to even suggest that it could be a problem here. It's OK though. It's been worked on and also towns are only on 1% of the rivers. So in the short term agriculture has to be stopped because farmers are polluting because we are driven purely by greed!!!!
I could go on but I won't. There is certainly a lot of problems to be sorted out and will need lots of money thrown at them!

I wasn't aware that England also had issues with high nitrate levels, also I had totally forgotten about n release from cultivation guess I was only thinking of burning carbon. I better pull my socks up.

NZ has been promoted, to be the 'holy grail' of farming without subsidies, it would seem, that comment, in the longer term, doesn't work. We work under a raft of strict N rules, and, in general, NZ farming, has worked to a level, that we can only dream of, in terms of welfare and general practices. NZ farmers, were dropped in the shite, over withdrawal of subs, and forced to compete, they have done that, and praise, to them, is justified. But, how they did it, we wouldn't be allowed to do the same. As rules, sort out your 'problems', will you be able to compete, on a level playing field ? NZ ag, was forced to change, or get out, those that prospered, can teach us many valuable lessons, and i, like many others, have learn't from them.
But, it would appear, from your remarks on pollution, n use, + welfare, indicate things will change ! The ideals of gov's, re the countryside, and how they would like to see it, run in direct conflict, with their desire for cheap food. That policy, here, in the UK, will lead to more imports, as brexit will, cheap imports, usually mean shortages in the country they come from, not the USA, which means higher carbon, and unrest, in the countries that are unstable.
For us, we will farm our little patch, in a way we enjoy, hoping it's left in a better condition, when i depart, and wave two fingers, at anyone saying, we have a duty to feed the world. They don't care about us, so why should we care about them ? After all, we have the ultimate weapon, it's called food.

 

[Henarar]

NZ has been promoted, to be the 'holy grail' of farming without subsidies, it would seem, that comment, in the longer term, doesn't work. We work under a raft of strict N rules, and, in general, NZ farming, has worked to a level, that we can only dream of, in terms of welfare and general practices. NZ farmers, were dropped in the shite, over withdrawal of subs, and forced to compete, they have done that, and praise, to them, is justified. But, how they did it, we wouldn't be allowed to do the same. As rules, sort out your 'problems', will you be able to compete, on a level playing field ? NZ ag, was forced to change, or get out, those that prospered, can teach us many valuable lessons, and i, like many others, have learn't from them.
But, it would appear, from your remarks on pollution, n use, + welfare, indicate things will change ! The ideals of gov's, re the countryside, and how they would like to see it, run in direct conflict, with their desire for cheap food. That policy, here, in the UK, will lead to more imports, as brexit will, cheap imports, usually mean shortages in the country they come from, not the USA, which means higher carbon, and unrest, in the countries that are unstable.
For us, we will farm our little patch, in a way we enjoy, hoping it's left in a better condition, when i depart, and wave two fingers, at anyone saying, we have a duty to feed the world. They don't care about us, so why should we care about them ? After all, we have the ultimate weapon, it's called food.

No rules on N or slurry/fym application here despite plenty of testing

 

[GC74]

NZ has been promoted, to be the 'holy grail' of farming without subsidies, it would seem, that comment, in the longer term, doesn't work. We work under a raft of strict N rules, and, in general, NZ farming, has worked to a level, that we can only dream of, in terms of welfare and general practices. NZ farmers, were dropped in the shite, over withdrawal of subs, and forced to compete, they have done that, and praise, to them, is justified. But, how they did it, we wouldn't be allowed to do the same. As rules, sort out your 'problems', will you be able to compete, on a level playing field ? NZ ag, was forced to change, or get out, those that prospered, can teach us many valuable lessons, and i, like many others, have learn't from them.
But, it would appear, from your remarks on pollution, n use, + welfare, indicate things will change ! The ideals of gov's, re the countryside, and how they would like to see it, run in direct conflict, with their desire for cheap food. That policy, here, in the UK, will lead to more imports, as brexit will, cheap imports, usually mean shortages in the country they come from, not the USA, which means higher carbon, and unrest, in the countries that are unstable.
For us, we will farm our little patch, in a way we enjoy, hoping it's left in a better condition, when i depart, and wave two fingers, at anyone saying, we have a duty to feed the world. They don't care about us, so why should we care about them ? After all, we have the ultimate weapon, it's called food.

You have summed things up very well and pointed out things I have no answer for or what direction we will end up heading..........as a country we have hung our hat on free trade which has been great for consumers but has been nothing but a race to the bottom for producers, to combat we have specialized, increased scale, production and changed land use. This in turns lead to monocultures and over stretching which we've seen in dairy and n use as we chase the highest return.

The new rules that have been introduced aren't fit for purpose and are simply unfair. The costs associated with them will without doubt make us uncompetitive nor achieve the desired outcomes.

Agriculture has become a potitical football and has got to a point where everyone knows more about how to farm than us farmers and to it top off they want it all for nothing!!

I don't think I have a need to feed the world nor do I think my mates would say that either, we just don't enough people here to eat what we can produce so need to export and till now been able to it cheaply

 

[texas pete]

I really don't know!
I tended to buy ewe lambs, lamb them then sell them off looking good for crazy money (double what I pay for them) at the Easter sales, ready for the tup.
Ideally you just want to feed them constantly, rather than too well, throughout pregnancy - especially lambing shearlings as they mostly only carry singles. Have had a few stuck lambs this year but his hoggs have grown really well, it's a tradeoff I guess.View attachment 916753

They look well.

As you say, it's a tradeoff, often between having enough milk and not having the lambs too big.

 

[Fenwick]

I don't think I have a need to feed the world nor do I think my mates would say that either, we just don't enough people here to eat what we can produce so need to export and till now been able to it cheaply

perhaps de all néed to produce what thé population needs, and export a bit less.

 

[Rob Garrett]

Whitewash envy!
@Karliboy what lime did you use in that whitewash? Looked amazingly persal white. Been doing some here but looks more like old pants white!

 

[som farmer]

perhaps de all néed to produce what thé population needs, and export a bit less.

that would be ideal, but would people pay for it ? I have concerns over imports, or more specific, where we import from. The hype over climate change, is huge, but how many people, as a % of population, really care ? As long as food is cheap, it's lip service no more than that. World population is growing, but, expectations, and knowledge is growing, as well, especially in the 3rd world countries, will their populations, be happy to live in poverty, while their ag, is exported ? What will happen, if climate change actually happens ? More desert in the 3rd world ? Will those populations, quietly starve, to supply us ? Agriculture, is such an important part of life, we really do not deserve to be treated, as we are. If the WHO, is right with it's population forecasts, and climate change happens, relying on cheap imports, will be 'unwise'.
However, for NZ, they do have other exports, especially in the 'home brewing' market, which makes me, and plenty of others, returning customers, although the remarks of GC74, that new regs, will seriously hurt farmers, but as the fronterra auctions, help to set our price, i don't know if i should sympathise, or not.

 

[Karliboy]

Whitewash envy!
@Karliboy what lime did you use in that whitewash? Looked amazingly persal white. Been doing some here but looks more like old pants white!
View attachment 916990View attachment 916991

I’ll look tomorrow at what it is.
I think it is just standard builders lime I think, as I leave pops to do it as it keeps him occupied for a couple off weeks with pressure washing down first.
Everything gets a couple of coats.
Can’t beat a nice clean fresh smelling building at the start of winter. Keeps the bugs down too

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Someone's getting her winter coat removed she's still had a calf in her 26 days ago, so

Quite a bit of activity actually

Seems like just the other day they were little scruffs

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Were we discussing inbreeding on this thread?
#throwbackthursday

First tricolour lamb I've seen in a long time

 

[Woolless]

Were we discussing inbreeding on this thread?
#throwbackthursdayView attachment 917249
First tricolour lamb I've seen in a long time

Surely if the kids spot that, it will become a permanent resident?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Surely if the kids spot that, it will become a permanent resident?

..... indoors