"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

Its the water situation I can’t figure out. Draining and moving a trough more than once a day is a huge pain

We often set up our lane system with double troughs, and then we don't have to leapfrog them as often.
Eg at the end of the laneways we can often not tip the troughs all for a week or more, because of the fact we can skip through cells with the pogo shifter and graze from the water troughs outwards.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Its the water situation I can’t figure out. Draining and moving a trough more than once a day is a huge pain

Also I have two troughs so I don't have to drain out. The full one which is always nearest the next cell gets switched off at moving and either slid into the new cell or just pull the fence over it so they have access and empty it out over the next day so it can be moved empty if that makes sense.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

It's an interesting thing to do, I always tip out troughs full so I can see what the water does.
Good feedback and a bit like the pasture monitoring, you soon get a feel for whether the soil is open to water or capped off.
By my standards the 150 litres should be all gone in 30 seconds or I ask questions as to what I've done

 

[Henarar]

I did half of a effort into marking where I’ve been on a calendar and a few photos left on my phone to still mark on the calendar rom the last 2 rounds.
Looking back my first round was just about right the 2nd I think I waited a little to late in the dry spell of late spring so the grass was borderline seeding but not just there so I don’t think it liked that as it struggled after that and rounds 3+4 I think was to quick but I wanted to try rest the hill more. Round 5 was a good cover just a tad earlier than i expected.
The dry spring really put me on the back foot right from the start I mucked the hill but it was dry for weeks on end and all that fym I put on in March just dried up and frazzled due to lack of the normal spring moisture so didn’t really grow me any extra early fodder that I was expecting
But I got through with near normal stock numbers yes I’ve made no bales at home but I’ve also used only 600kg off 20-10-10 compared to the normal 2400 so all in all I’m happy.
Looking back this season the aim for next year is to move faster lots faster.

I do keep getting a urge to get some tack sheep in just for the meadows just to help with a little income and to tread a little poaching down but I can’t help but think that it will knock turn out back in the spring as I have a nice covering of grass again now albeit a little bare soil due to poaching
(Maybe next year)

Seems all good stuff.
My plan is in my head and changing as things change, a record would be good to back it up.

We have found that keep sheep make little difference to the amount of spring grass as long as they are gone by the turn of the year so it gets a good recovery but they really inprove the quality. That said some fields that are more exposed can suffer if we get a cold wind after the sheep come out.
We currently have about 230 keep lambs here in two groups about the same size, they are making their way round the fields, currently one lot of about 115 is in 2 acres and the other is in 4 acres.
All I can say if you are going to have them have them early and have enough so you can get them round quick and get them gone.
Another thing they are good for is pushing any spread dung in the ground, they will save the bother of harrowing and rolling in the spring on silage ground

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Seems all good stuff.
My plan is in my head and changing as things change, a record would be good to back it up.

We have found that keep sheep make little difference to the amount of spring grass as long as they are gone by the turn of the year so it gets a good recovery but they really inprove the quality. That said some fields that are more exposed can suffer if we get a cold wind after the sheep come out.
We currently have about 230 keep lambs here in two groups about the same size, they are making their way round the fields, currently one lot of about 115 is in 2 acres and the other is in 4 acres.
All I can say if you are going to have them have them early and have enough so you can get them round quick and get them gone.
Another thing they are good for is pushing any spread dung in the ground, they will save the bother of harrowing and rolling in the spring on silage ground

Yes,I have noticed a big difference in the distribution of muck compared to cattle. It's like someone has gone out a and sprinkled a kilo evenly over every square metre. With cattle, you might not get any in that square

 

[som farmer]

once told sheep grazed over winter were worth 100 kg 20:10:0 acre, whether that is right or not, i have no idea, but they do a good job cleaning up grass, and improving tillering. Keep sheep coming back in this winter, son thinks i might have been right !
Water, we have seen, and intend to try, water troughs made from tyres, bearing in mind, some bigger tyres will hold 8/900 gallons, looks 'easy', cut off 1 side wall, fill 'hole' in middle with concrete, insert pipe, off you go, works well from a natural supply, pipe in overflow out. All sounds great, will keep informed of the actual 'doing' !

 

[Henarar]

Yes,I have noticed a big difference in the distribution of muck compared to cattle. It's like someone has gone out a and sprinkled a kilo evenly over every square metre. With cattle, you might not get any in that square

I was meaning they are good for pushing in cow dung that has been spread also they graze round it better than cattle, but you are also quite right in what you say

 

[Henarar]

once told sheep grazed over winter were worth 100 kg 20:10:0 acre, whether that is right or not, i have no idea,

mate of mine would say that a sheep's fart is worth more than a cow's sh1t

 

[Crofter64]

These micro troughs work better than you would imagine. Quite happy to use one for a group of 50 dry cows/r2's through the winter grazing or even up to 100 r1's.
Work best with good water pressure.

Its the good water pressure part that is difficult. One mistake and you have a lake. I run my water to an IBS tank and then with pathetic pressure into a trough with float valve, but as it is right next to them they go in turns rather than as a group.

 

[onesiedale]

Its the good water pressure part that is difficult. One mistake and you have a lake. I run my water to an IBS tank and then with pathetic pressure into a trough with float valve, but as it is right next to them they go in turns rather than as a group.

The beauty of the micro troughs is that their default position for the float is off. So no matter how much abuse the stock may give them they don't overflow.

 

[Fenwick]

When we are run off our feet and always exhausted, our thinking becomes impaired. When I am in an extended period of high labor, I get tunnel vision and my creativity is severely impaired

This x 1000 this.

For me when the pressures on and i'm up against it I make mistakes and make poor decisions. Which then cost me money and time and male matter worse.

When the pressure is off, I can step back and think, and project.

I know which one I prefer! (But I keep adding stuff on mind).

ts the water situation I can’t figure out. Draining and moving a trough more than once a day is a huge pain

We move the trough once a day. Then leave that back fence by the trough while moving the front fences. The back fence will then get moved the next day (along with the trough). Been fine for multiple moves a day.

Yes! That's why I'm going to have to make an investment in a better system, even if it costs a few bob to set up. Ideally I'd like to have 1 trough per acre but it may be down the line that it happens - firstly we're going to techno ⅔ of our farm and we'll begin with a water system, even if it just skeletal and we plug our troughs in and shuffle them about. Then, put the lanes up!

This wa one of the better decision we made at the begging of the year. 1 portable 100 litre trough per group, and a quick connect every 50 meters. Moving water now takes less than a minute per group. Really happy with the kiwitech python troughs.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

It's an interesting thing to do, I always tip out troughs full so I can see what the water does.
Good feedback and a bit like the pasture monitoring, you soon get a feel for whether the soil is open to water or capped off.
By my standards the 150 litres should be all gone in 30 seconds or I ask questions as to what I've done

We can't do that as we're on metered water!

 

[Crofter64]

You need these
View attachment 924585

My son is living in England and is coming home for Christmas. I have asked for one fo these

 

[Poorbuthappy]

In all the videos they have huge numbers of cattle to one of these, but for me it seems a giant leap of faith that a tub that size is ok when you look at the historical tanks we have about the place. How do folks rate this micro trough idea? Looks brilliant, but at the moment Im not brave enough to believe.

As @onesiedale says, fine for up to 50 cattle as recommended.
I find if the water is right there with them, they drink as they want it rather than waiting til they're all thirsty and everyone trooping off together and draining the water trough in 1 go as happens if they have to walk far to drink

 

[exmoor dave]

As @onesiedale says, fine for up to 50 cattle as recommended.
I find if the water is right there with them, they drink as they want it rather than waiting til they're all thirsty and everyone trooping off together and draining the water trough in 1 go as happens if they have to walk far to drink

I believe there is a scientific answer to the max distance or area per trough, that cattle will drink as individuals rather than a herd...... I want to to say its 50m or 1ha..... hopefully someone who has listened better to the experts can confirm

 

[exmoor dave]

All answers are given with the caveat, "it depends"

For lambing paddocks for spring, yes I clean them out! For an early bite for cows, I wouldn't. That's the benefit of having a bit of a plan/goal laid out ahead of time?
As we delete the lambing concern here, so does the desire to mop up valuable litter and put it through an animal, but lambs aren't cows.
What do you want to have ahead of you is the question!

Lots of lush good quality grass would be nice...
Sometimes it actually happens

 

[onesiedale]

once told sheep grazed over winter were worth 100 kg 20:10:0 acre, whether that is right or not, i have no idea, but they do a good job cleaning up grass, and improving tillering. Keep sheep coming back in this winter, son thinks i might have been right !
Water, we have seen, and intend to try, water troughs made from tyres, bearing in mind, some bigger tyres will hold 8/900 gallons, looks 'easy', cut off 1 side wall, fill 'hole' in middle with concrete, insert pipe, off you go, works well from a natural supply, pipe in overflow out. All sounds great, will keep informed of the actual 'doing' !

Old manitou tyre salvaged from the silage pit.
Sealed with an old sheet of solid plastic and plenty of mastic.
Bottom fill valve.
. . . but not to be recommended for moving regularly

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I believe there is a scientific answer to the max distance or area per trough, that cattle will drink as individuals rather than a herd...... I want to to say its 50m or 1ha..... hopefully someone who has listened better to the experts can confirm

Had FWAG here today. They asked how I sorted water for mob grazing and I said about the micro troughs.
Did suggest whilst it was great system, it was perhaps the least like nature in the regenerative grazing approach. Unless animals are migrating along a river bank, they're not likely to have a nice supply of clean water following them around

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Manage what you have, for what you want, @exmoor dave I personally wouldn't want to graze out below 1550 on most of my paddocks, maybe for your very first single paddocks go to 1450 if you need to. They'll get the most rest so will have perked up a leaf before winter

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Had FWAG here today. They asked how I sorted water for mob grazing and I said about the micro troughs.
Did suggest whilst it was great system, it was perhaps the least like nature in the regenerative grazing approach. Unless animals are migrating along a river bank, they're not likely to have a nice supply of clean water following them around

Have to agree with this, in some respects. The whole "fence them into an area" is just one way of achieving animal impact because you maintain stocking density with small numbers of animals.

Really the ultimate is a big combined mob but "farmers won't share", the boundary fence is probably as unnatural as the water trough.

Talking with Ian Mitchell-Innes and Allan Savory brings that fact home smartly, it's just how we think to do it, our adaptation of the principles. A bit like growing grass for sheep.