"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

[Kiwi Pete]

forget about feeding. You have to harvest it first. That would be ajob and a half.

No trouble for the right harvester ! The thing, I suppose, is not to overlook the obvious.

Humans are great at this. Spend time energy and money thinking they're doing it the easiest and cheapest and best way when.... they are doing it. They are... doing it!

If you don't get rid of the hay out of spite/fear of losing it, then it's everywhere it needs to be when it's needed.

And I am starting to see that every day the sun comes up, animals will go for it.
Sheep, calves, goats, deer... real feed isn't "just for beef cows" "not for sheep" "not for dairy"
It's just our own relationship with letting things be that would have us say that bale grazing (as an example) is somehow superior to putting animals at grass that looks ungrazed.

Cows don't break knives when there are stones in the grass, and don't go on fire for fun.

 

[som farmer]

with the uk's cattle passport system, that would take hours to imput

we have 28 going out, and 57 in this week, that's a good couple of hours, by the time its on our system as well.

1 knacker cow, mark as dead on our system, report death to BCMS

23 stirks out, each p/port found/dated, market form with each animal written on, update our system, report movement to BCMS

66 in, each 12 digit unique number, entered on to our system, and individual numbers reported to BCMS.

plus, physically sorting out, and penning up those calves, 32 in single pens

how many did you say you did ? You might get told to go feck yourself for that many here !!

good calves though, seller rung this morning to check everything ok. And subject to agreeing price, not a problem, especially as all calves vaccinated v pneumonia, and BVD tag and tested, we will take all his beef calves, in batches of 25 in our box !

 

[Poorbuthappy]

1 knacker cow, mark as dead on our system, report death to BCMS

23 stirks out, each p/port found/dated, market form with each animal written on, update our system, report movement to BCMS

66 in, each 12 digit unique number, entered on to our system, and individual numbers reported to BCMS.

plus, physically sorting out, and penning up those calves, 32 in single pens

how many did you say you did ? You might get told to go feck yourself for that many here !!

good calves though, seller rung this morning to check everything ok. And subject to agreeing price, not a problem, especially as all calves vaccinated v pneumonia, and BVD tag and tested, we will take all his beef calves, in batches of 25 in our box !

You can use a barcode scanner

 

[som farmer]

You can use a barcode scanner

but l don't

 

[Poorbuthappy]

but l don't

Me neither.
But if I was doing a lot regularly I'd get 1.

 

[Samcowman]

1 group out of their holding pattern and spring grazing started properly today. This hasn’t been touched since September. 2 age groups mixed together and 85 head in this mob.
going to put them on twice daily due to ground still being tender and wanting to increase the animal impact on the overwintered grass by upping density.

 

[Bobby D]

Someone

View attachment 1169647
1 group out of their holding pattern and spring grazing started properly today. This hasn’t been touched since September. 2 age groups mixed together and 85 head in this mob.
going to put them on twice daily due to ground still being tender and wanting to increase the animal impact on the overwintered grass by upping density.

Someone please show Farmer Phil!!

 

[som farmer]

Someone

Someone please show Farmer Phil!!

now that is some farming, not sure how he gets away with all those calves, in one lot.

firmly old fashioned here, calves in single pens !

there again, we topped at £620, for just touching 6month old bbx, dairy steers, £570 hfrs, another successful mkt day

think we will stick to tried and tested old fashioned systems, all full up again, with aax calves.

 

[Samcowman]

now that is some farming, not sure how he gets away with all those calves, in one lot.

firmly old fashioned here, calves in single pens !

there again, we topped at £620, for just touching 6month old bbx, dairy steers, £570 hfrs, another successful mkt day

think we will stick to tried and tested old fashioned systems, all full up again, with aax calves.

We have about 120 on milk at the moment are pen sizes range from 10-17 depending on pen size and feed system. Bugger pens on automatic machine smaller ones on manual. Both ways work well here for me. As ever it’s about context.

 

[som farmer]

We have about 120 on milk at the moment are pen sizes range from 10-17 depending on pen size and feed system. Bugger pens on automatic machine smaller ones on manual. Both ways work well here for me. As ever it’s about context.

if it works, why change it ?

had an automatic machine, but ad-lib, years ago. OM's job, not to sure he was using it correctly, but couldn't say so ! At one stage, he was trying to feed 50/50 waste milk, powder, through it, some 'clever' device. Another time, acidified powder, fed cold.

used hell of a lot of powder, couldn't keep the bedding dry, even lifted it off floor, with mesh. And no end of problems with pneumonia. Really put me off machines.

took over in the end, back on bucket and pens, and full steam ahead. And being all set up, it really is very quick feeding, single teat hook over bucket, milk warm in a milk taxi, and end up with good calves, todays 23 av £507, let down by 2 red hereford hfrs, at £340, didn't match with anything else here.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Photos: Courtesy of Gerardo Diaz.
Comment: Johann Zietsman

The above photos clearly illustrate the difference in grass conversion efficiency between two cows. The difference in efficiency is determined by Relative Intake as reflected in Inherent Body Condition.

The large frame, thin cow represents a "lean and 'efficient' " genotype resulting from selection for absolute growth and so-called feed efficiency as done in FCE feedlot feed tests (kg feed: kg gain) and NFE and RFI predictions.
The small frame cow (probably heavier) represents true efficiency - large intake above maintenance requirement.

It should be clear to any cattleman with his feet on the ground that efficiency of grass conversion is positively related to inherent body condition as determined by relative intake. Select for grass conversion efficiency via:
* 2 + 3 calving
* Yearling bull maturity

Animal "scientists" need to leave their offices and do some serious observations out in the veld.

@unlacedgecko

 

[unlacedgecko]

View attachment 1169750Photos: Courtesy of Gerardo Diaz.
Comment: Johann Zietsman

The above photos clearly illustrate the difference in grass conversion efficiency between two cows. The difference in efficiency is determined by Relative Intake as reflected in Inherent Body Condition.

The large frame, thin cow represents a "lean and 'efficient' " genotype resulting from selection for absolute growth and so-called feed efficiency as done in FCE feedlot feed tests (kg feed: kg gain) and NFE and RFI predictions.
The small frame cow (probably heavier) represents true efficiency - large intake above maintenance requirement.

It should be clear to any cattleman with his feet on the ground that efficiency of grass conversion is positively related to inherent body condition as determined by relative intake. Select for grass conversion efficiency via:
* 2 + 3 calving
* Yearling bull maturity

Animal "scientists" need to leave their offices and do some serious observations out in the veld.

@unlacedgecko

Hey I'm in that WhatsApp group

 

[som farmer]

View attachment 1169750Photos: Courtesy of Gerardo Diaz.
Comment: Johann Zietsman

The above photos clearly illustrate the difference in grass conversion efficiency between two cows. The difference in efficiency is determined by Relative Intake as reflected in Inherent Body Condition.

The large frame, thin cow represents a "lean and 'efficient' " genotype resulting from selection for absolute growth and so-called feed efficiency as done in FCE feedlot feed tests (kg feed: kg gain) and NFE and RFI predictions.
The small frame cow (probably heavier) represents true efficiency - large intake above maintenance requirement.

It should be clear to any cattleman with his feet on the ground that efficiency of grass conversion is positively related to inherent body condition as determined by relative intake. Select for grass conversion efficiency via:
* 2 + 3 calving
* Yearling bull maturity

Animal "scientists" need to leave their offices and do some serious observations out in the veld.

@unlacedgecko

not your usual grass covers

this is exactly where the holstein breeders went 'wrong' created something that couldn't produce off grass, then we are taught, milk from forage, is the key to profitability l would prefer a figure of milk from grazing.

we rear a 'pick and mix' lot of calves, and it is soon obvious that some are 'superior' at growth from grass, than others. The magic of feed conversion rates. We have short dumpy fat stores, and tall lean framey ones, in the same group/breeds. That is one of the reasons we have come to terms, to take all beef calves, from a 450 dairy, 100+ AAx calves, by one sire.

but, grass is the cheapest food we can feed to cattle/sheep, and the conversion rate will become of greater importance, we need to learn how to exploit that. I get asked, 'what bull should l use, on dairy cows, for beef'.

AI its easy, don't buy the cheapest, extra £ or 2, spent on a 'better' bull, pays dividends. Stock bulls, that's a big problem, for beef rearer's, dairy farmers, (me as well) have a distinct aversion to paying big money for them, its a hard hard life for them.

but, as KP points out, we need an animal that will 'do' at grass, with minimal grain input, either for beef, or dairy. And as we go forward, it will become more and more important.

now, what's the best breed for grazing herbal leys.........................................

 

[Henarar]

View attachment 1169750Photos: Courtesy of Gerardo Diaz.
Comment: Johann Zietsman

The above photos clearly illustrate the difference in grass conversion efficiency between two cows. The difference in efficiency is determined by Relative Intake as reflected in Inherent Body Condition.

The large frame, thin cow represents a "lean and 'efficient' " genotype resulting from selection for absolute growth and so-called feed efficiency as done in FCE feedlot feed tests (kg feed: kg gain) and NFE and RFI predictions.
The small frame cow (probably heavier) represents true efficiency - large intake above maintenance requirement.

It should be clear to any cattleman with his feet on the ground that efficiency of grass conversion is positively related to inherent body condition as determined by relative intake. Select for grass conversion efficiency via:
* 2 + 3 calving
* Yearling bull maturity

Animal "scientists" need to leave their offices and do some serious observations out in the veld.

@unlacedgecko

tuther one will make a good cull

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Hey I'm in that WhatsApp group

Ah you will be too, my bad!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

not your usual grass covers

this is exactly where the holstein breeders went 'wrong' created something that couldn't produce off grass, then we are taught, milk from forage, is the key to profitability l would prefer a figure of milk from grazing.

we rear a 'pick and mix' lot of calves, and it is soon obvious that some are 'superior' at growth from grass, than others. The magic of feed conversion rates. We have short dumpy fat stores, and tall lean framey ones, in the same group/breeds. That is one of the reasons we have come to terms, to take all beef calves, from a 450 dairy, 100+ AAx calves, by one sire.

but, grass is the cheapest food we can feed to cattle/sheep, and the conversion rate will become of greater importance, we need to learn how to exploit that. I get asked, 'what bull should l use, on dairy cows, for beef'.

AI its easy, don't buy the cheapest, extra £ or 2, spent on a 'better' bull, pays dividends. Stock bulls, that's a big problem, for beef rearer's, dairy farmers, (me as well) have a distinct aversion to paying big money for them, its a hard hard life for them.

but, as KP points out, we need an animal that will 'do' at grass, with minimal grain input, either for beef, or dairy. And as we go forward, it will become more and more important.

now, what's the best breed for grazing herbal leys.........................................

Grain input is an interesting bit all on its own, what we see on our "they're ruining that farm" pastures that are full of seed is... 2.2kg gain per day on our fattening cows, and heifers that have hit their 450kg calving target before the bull comes out in Feb

They are eating a serious amount of "grain" just not grain as we know it, the cereal paddocks are all shut up for later, I mean wholegrain full fat pasture

(I know you can't do that in the UK because if the sun came out for more than 11½ minutes the place would probably catch fire, but we have good dry times where things just click)

What struck me is these are both good cows and "efficient" in their own way, but a lot of people would excuse that cull as "she's putting it all into her calf" "hard working" etc etc and slowly go broke

I have never seen the "efficiency" in keeping a heifer a whole extra year before the bull joins, or ending up with a 3yo who still hasn't gotten incalf without assistance, can't calve without tubs and cameras and ropes, or is bred for "milkiness" as if the one calf needs 15 l of milk a day. Maybe that's why her calf will be sh!t too.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

tuther one will make a good cull

Yes and that big brute of a calf, her dam and her sire could go too

 

[som farmer]

Grain input is an interesting bit all on its own, what we see on our "they're ruining that farm" pastures that are full of seed is... 2.2kg gain per day on our fattening cows, and heifers that have hit their 450kg calving target before the bull comes out in Feb

They are eating a serious amount of "grain" just not grain as we know it, the cereal paddocks are all shut up for later, I mean wholegrain full fat pasture

(I know you can't do that in the UK because if the sun came out for more than 11½ minutes the place would probably catch fire, but we have good dry times where things just click)

What struck me is these are both good cows and "efficient" in their own way, but a lot of people would excuse that cull as "she's putting it all into her calf" "hard working" etc etc and slowly go broke

I have never seen the "efficiency" in keeping a heifer a whole extra year before the bull joins, or ending up with a 3yo who still hasn't gotten incalf without assistance, can't calve without tubs and cameras and ropes, or is bred for "milkiness" as if the one calf needs 15 l of milk a day. Maybe that's why her calf will be sh!t too.

oldest fresh calved dairy hfr, l have seen go through Exeter mkt, 5.5 years old, and near topped the mkt.

interesting point re grass seeds, perhaps l have underestimated the value of prg in a dry time, its very prolific in pushing up seed heads

we were successful in pre-mowing grass this year, or the dry bit of it, lot of seed heads in that, cows ate the lot.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

oldest fresh calved dairy hfr, l have seen go through Exeter mkt, 5.5 years old, and near topped the mkt.

interesting point re grass seeds, perhaps l have underestimated the value of prg in a dry time, its very prolific in pushing up seed heads

we were successful in pre-mowing grass this year, or the dry bit of it, lot of seed heads in that, cows ate the lot.

Yes I would love to understand how much it will degrade once wettened, by observation animals happily graze brown and yellow food while it's dry, but a rain puts paid to that.

On that note we have had a very timely 7mm of rain overnight, imagine the stock will rapidly "get over" eating dry matter as a consequence.

7mm March (so far)
0.7 Feb
1.2 Jan
3.8 Dec
3.0 Nov
3.8 Oct
1.8 Sep
5.0 Aug
6.6 Jul
65 Jun
135 May

Wasn't really here in April or March as there were no stock

 

[sheepdogtrail]

View attachment 1168216

Gary Larson! Excellent. Perfect timing on that one.