Infertile Tup warranty??

[Shann_mann]

I brought a pedigree tup last year at the breeds main society sale. I put him with 14 ewes that and been with a teaser tup. When it come to scanning only 2 were in lamb. So as I was still in the 4 month warranty I contacted the society office to see what to do. But as I’m not a known name in the breed and my tup come of a man with a little bit of power in his area the society was less than helpful. So I had the tup checked out. The result showed that he only gave a drop of seman which 97% was dead so my vet said he was a non breeder. So I took this information to the breeder and the society and again none gave a monkeys. The breeder told me to keep him and test him again this summer. So like the mug I am I have done this to get the same results an infertile tup. I’ve shown this to the breeder nearly 2 weeks ago and I’ve had no answer. I went to the society and said about it for them to tell me they would help sort it. Again nearly a week and still no results. What is the next step?

Do I go to social media and slate the breeder for breaking the society rules?
Do I just keep trying?
Or do I just forget about it and accept that this pedigree breeder is a clicky world and if you face doesn’t fit your wasting your time

 

[SteveHants]

Is it a breed that you have no choice other than to keep?

Were it me, I'd be livid. I'd expect a refund as soon as the poor semen quality was confirmed.

I think, in your circumstances, a replacement wouldn't cut it for me, I'd expect a full refund, I'd never buy stock off that breeder again and quite probably would be looking for another breed or a breeder who hasn't got anything to do with the breed society.


It's good these days, because social media is quite powerful and if you have been given bad service, you can make sure that lots of people know. Businesses are built on reputation.

 

[Shann_mann]

I’m pedigree so I do it for breeding stock.

 

[betweenthelines]

This sort of thing is usually in the Machinery Section

I bought something, it doesn't work, so months later I've decided i now want my money back but the dealer doesn't want to know-what shall I do?

FFS, did you think the Ram was going to grow some more balls?

There's a clue there to my thoughts on the matter

 

[SteveHants]

This sort of thing is usually in the Machinery Section

I bought something, it doesn't work, so months later I've decided i now want my money back but the dealer doesn't want to know-what shall I do?

FFS, did you think the Ram was going to grow some more balls?

There's a clue there to my thoughts on the matter

Hang on a second, the OP complained within the warranty period, and went to the trouble of having the semen quality verified by the vet.
The animal he was sold was not fit for purpose and it should have been refunded/replaced as soon as the complaint was made.
If the breeder doesn't do this, he has to expect to be badmouthed all over the industry.

 

[SteveHants]

To add: during my time in the genetics industry, I was aware of more than one case of customers discovering that they were being supplied with semen, the quality of which was inferior in quality to that guaranteed by the supplier suing the supplier for several millions of pounds as it had taken them a long time to discover (other aspects of the production system were initially blamed before they started testing semen on delivery).

I don't see why this is any different.

 

[Shann_mann]

This sort of thing is usually in the Machinery Section

I bought something, it doesn't work, so months later I've decided i now want my money back but the dealer doesn't want to know-what shall I do?

FFS, did you think the Ram was going to grow some more balls?

There's a clue there to my thoughts on the matter

You have 4 months to claim an infertile tup. So it wasn’t months later. You get 4 years warranty on a washing machine so if it breaks after 3 years 11 months and 29 days can you still claim? Yes.

 

[SteveHants]

You have 4 months to claim an infertile tup. So it wasn’t months later. You get 4 years warranty on a washing machine so if it breaks after 3 years 11 months and 29 days can you still claim? Yes.

See my above post - in that case the semen was guaranteed for 5 days.

It didn't matter that all of the semen in question would have been out of date.
It's loss of earnings that have resulted from being supplied with a substandard product.

 

[neilo]

I brought a pedigree tup last year at the breeds main society sale. I put him with 14 ewes that and been with a teaser tup. When it come to scanning only 2 were in lamb. So as I was still in the 4 month warranty I contacted the society office to see what to do. But as I’m not a known name in the breed and my tup come of a man with a little bit of power in his area the society was less than helpful. So I had the tup checked out. The result showed that he only gave a drop of seman which 97% was dead so my vet said he was a non breeder. So I took this information to the breeder and the society and again none gave a monkeys. The breeder told me to keep him and test him again this summer. So like the mug I am I have done this to get the same results an infertile tup. I’ve shown this to the breeder nearly 2 weeks ago and I’ve had no answer. I went to the society and said about it for them to tell me they would help sort it. Again nearly a week and still no results. What is the next step?

Do I go to social media and slate the breeder for breaking the society rules?
Do I just keep trying?
Or do I just forget about it and accept that this pedigree breeder is a clicky world and if you face doesn’t fit your wasting your time

What is the wording of the breed society’s warranty? There are usually times by which you have to apply (I assume that’s the ‘4 months’ you referred to?), and a definition of what constitutes being fertile. Getting one ewe in lamb, to a natural heat (not sponged, etc), is often considered ‘fertile’, although may well be sub-fertile of course.
Lots of rams bought at ‘Premier’ sales are a bit lacking in the fertility department, partly because of the early season date, but also due to the copious quantities of acidifying feed they are given over a long period in order to make them look like a ‘Premier’ ram. To expect a ram bought from a sale where you know that’s happening, and expecting him to be fertile in the next month or so would be optimistic ime.
You certainly did right giving him time, but if he’s still wrong now then he’s likely to never come right.

However, if he’s satisfied the fertility requirements laid out in the society’s rules (getting one ewe in lamb?), then you may only have the breeder’s good will to appeal to. Sadly some don’t know the meaning of that though.

I really wouldn’t worry about your perception that you are considered less important than those breeders in ‘the circle’. I’d create Merry hell if I was genuinely treated in that manner, and you’ll be surprised what pressure will be brought to bear to avoid bad publicity.

 

[Shann_mann]

This is it. I brought a dud tup plus had 12 empty sheep. Let say the would of lambed At 150%. That 18 spring lambs at £100 each so that £1800 plus a £600 tup. It starts to add up.

 

[Shann_mann]

What is the wording of the breed society’s warranty? There are usually times by which you have to apply (I assume that’s the ‘4 months’ you referred to?), and a definition of what constitutes being fertile. Getting one ewe in lamb, to a natural heat (not sponged, etc), is often considered ‘fertile’, although may well be sub-fertile of course.
Lots of rams bought at ‘Premier’ sales are a bit lacking in the fertility department, partly because of the early season date, but also due to the copious quantities of acidifying feed they are given over a long period in order to make them look like a ‘Premier’ ram. To expect a ram bought from a sale where you know that’s happening, and expecting him to be fertile in the next month or so would be optimistic ime.
You certainly did right giving him time, but if he’s still wrong now then he’s likely to never come right.

However, if he’s satisfied the fertility requirements laid out in the society’s rules (getting one ewe in lamb?), then you may only have the breeder’s good will to appeal to. Sadly some don’t know the meaning of that though.

I really wouldn’t worry about your perception that you are considered less important than those breeders in ‘the circle’. I’d create Merry hell if I was genuinely treated in that manner, and you’ll be surprised what pressure will be brought to bear to avoid bad publicity.

I found the handbook to the word and did everything they said in the office.

 

[neilo]

This is it. I brought a dud tup plus had 12 empty sheep. Let say the would of lambed At 150%. That 18 spring lambs at £100 each so that £1800 plus a £600 tup. It starts to add up.

Presumably you suspected an issue when the ewes started repeating after 17 days?

Most breed society warranties that i’m Aware of, specifically exclude ‘loss of earnings’ iirc.

 

[neilo]

I found the handbook to the word and did everything they said in the office.

Anything in that handbook that specifies what is considered ‘fertile’, for the purposes of the warranty?

Don’t get me wrong. From what you’ve posted, he’s clearly a wrong ‘un, but that definition makes a difference as to whether you have a claim on that warranty, or by appealing to the breeder’s sense of decency.

 

[Shann_mann]

I don't raddle the early’s.

 

[farmerm]

Maybe you bought a gay one...

 

[Shann_mann]

Maybe you bought a gay one...

That might explain why he’s so friendly?

 

[liammogs]

Have you been in touch with the auctioneers? They might be able to help you!

 

[Shann_mann]

Have you been in touch with the auctioneers? They might be able to help you!

Tried that and they just said go to the society and the breeder.

 

[gatepost]

As said , a lot of sub fertile rams out there and as long as folk go for the 'the big fat one' there will be disappointment, sadly most breed guarantees are based on only having to get one ewe in lamb naturally, that said ,I have a list of breeders I won't buy from based on their inability to understand what their responsibilities are, but the important thing is , raddle the bliidy thing, then you know what's going on and get on that phone as soon as they start to return, just to tell the breeder that 'we might have a problem'. I have a friend who gets himself in lots of problems, because he just can't bare having raddle on his ewes, and by the time he notices he has a problem he is outside the warranty period.

 

[yellowbelly]

Do I go to social media and slate the breeder for breaking the society rules?
Do I just keep trying?
Or do I just forget about it and accept that this pedigree breeder is a clicky world and if you face doesn’t fit your wasting your time

May I make a suggestion?
You've followed the society rules, as you say, 'by the book', so they are aware of the situation. I would start by posting the name of the society in your next post on this thread.

There's very likely somebody on here that will see it, who is a member of said society, and will give them a 'nudge'. They, in turn, may 'nudge' the breeder. Any half decent breeder ought to, at least, offer you a bit of help.

If you haven't heard anything, in say, a fortnight, post the bu66er's name on here - at least the rest of us will know who's tups to avoid.