Intensive cell grazing cattle

[Samcowman]

What suit of dlwg would you be expecting? Did they perform worse, better or no difference on grass of that length/quality?
Also is that rye grass or legume/herbs in the mix?

Where abouts are you. We might not be far away if you want a look for when grazing starts properly. Mostly herbal leys here on longer rotations 35 days plus from memory last season.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Everyone would like to do it but if you want to pass the hassle of keeping and calving cows to me then you will have to pay more for that.
The problem with a small margin is that it is easy to turn into a loss.

Very little cost involved though.

 

[puppet]

Very little cost involved though.

Maybe has some grass but if they are doing at scale then will be shelling out over £150,000.

 

[mezz]

I would draw a rough line in the sand that it isn't.

Both draw heavily on the collaborative effect of a number of animals in a small area for a short period of time, to my mind the technograzing/cell grazing is more about reducing competition with small mobs (eg Harry Weir's technograzing system for finishing b&w bull beef) to increase performance, mob grazing to me is about running a large mob so as to cause increased herd-effect

Have done both

What we saw on our old place after setting it up as 500 cells was that everything did better the more we went towards a "mob grazing in a cell grazing thing" - say we put 140 heifers into a system, they did better running in one mob than they did split into 3.

I am happier than most with things being "out of control" and many use these type of systems to gain more control, that's probably why our results vary from what most people observe

Hi Pete how did you manage infrastructure water with 500 cells? Also were the cells accessible from a laneway, or did you have to drive/walk through other cells to reach stock daily?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Hi Pete how did you manage infrastructure water with 500 cells? Also were the cells accessible from a laneway, or did you have to drive/walk through other cells to reach stock daily?

Howdy,, we had an UBCO electric bike set up with a frame to hop fences, quick and easy.

The first system we did had a bit of an opening for the waterboard to service the reservoir, we could use that to easily get stock in and out of the system and into the yards.

We shifted stock by lifting the wire up on 2m long fibreglass rods "pogos" "bellas" or whatever you want to call them, made a rack for my bike to carry them round. That meant we could just lift the fence and call the stock to where they needed to go, had a sort of central race with a 3 wire pressure fence on one side leading back to home.

The side with the smaller cells, just set that up with 2 wire lanes and pulled polytape through to make up the cells as needed; once it stopped being "the backfence" I'd just whip it across the next lane ready for them to come back up - these cells were 28x28m

Cells in the main system were 50 wide x 20 deep.

For water we ran a 40mm hdpe main from our header tank at the top of the farm, then ran 25mm pipe along the surface, protected by the lane fence, and used kiwitech microtroughs dug in (each one would serve 4 cells), we then installed a dosatron at the header tank to mineralise the water with a regular dairy mineral.

All the fence and water infrastructure was from kiwitech, we used 1.6mm ht wire, arrowposts, hypersprings (to tension the wire to 25kg) and wedgeclips (so we could adjust the wire height to suit grass length/stock size)

Also invested in 3 timer/wire lifters from Pensagro (Argentina) so we could set up automated shifts when we were away, I was working off-farm and so was my wife, they made a lot of things possible regards bigger mobs shifting more frequently

 

[ringi]

For water we ran a 40mm hdpe main from our header tank at the top of the farm, then ran 25mm pipe along the surface, protected by the lane fence, and used kiwitech microtroughs dug in (each one would serve 4 cells), we then installed a dosatron at the header tank to mineralise the water with a regular dairy mineral.

All the fence and water infrastructure was from kiwitech, we used 1.6mm ht wire, arrowposts, hypersprings (to tension the wire to 25kg) and wedgeclips (so we could adjust the wire height to suit grass length/stock size)

Also invested in 3 timer/wire lifters from Pensagro (Argentina) so we could set up automated shifts when we were away, I was working off-farm and so was my wife, they made a lot of things possible regards bigger mobs shifting more frequently

How much did that all cost compared to one tractor?

 

[ringi]

As the title suggest considering going down this route with the cattle.
Mega simple system, no breeding stock, one stock class. 12 month old bought in 400kgish animals, groups of 40 grazed from March to November on good free draining ground. Fresh cell every day, grazing herbal lays, no corn. On their own rotation not competing with sheep or cows.
Aim to sell everything fat come winter. Start again in the spring.
Do on scale so wouldn’t need massive margin to make a ok profit with the sfi subs as a bonus.
Anyone doing it? Could it work?

I keep thinking that it would be a great system until the year with a TB breakdown then have no flexibility to cope unless all cattle can always be sold finished in November.

But in a TB1 area would it be possible to have the TP test between November and March when there are no cattle?

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Maybe has some grass but if they are doing at scale then will be shelling out over £150,000.

That's cost of ownership not cost of production.

 

[onesiedale]

How much did that all cost compared to one tractor?

.... but a tractor would be of no use to feed and water cattle

 

[ringi]

.... but a tractor would be of no use to feed and water cattle

Without bale grazing, or winter housing, winter feeding etc there is no need to own a tractor at all.

 

[Samcowman]

I keep thinking that it would be a great system until the year with a TB breakdown then have no flexibility to cope unless all cattle can always be sold finished in November.

But in a TB1 area would it be possible to have the TP test between November and March when there are no cattle?

Finishing cattle in November off of grass extremely tricky. Would be better to plan to sell every thing as strong stores in October off of grass and any finished then would be a bonus. No need to TB test them if going to AFU

 

[Northern territory]

Finishing cattle in November off of grass extremely tricky. Would be better to plan to sell every thing as strong stores in October off of grass and any finished then would be a bonus. No need to TB test them if going to AFU

so a 300 quid ish margin minus costs. Maximising numbers will be key

 

[Samcowman]

so a 300 quid ish margin minus costs. Maximising numbers will be key

For me I wouldn’t be buying in the grass market would be better to buy in the autumn and carry for 11 months assuming there is housing. @Kernowkid may not have housing for that though.
Our cattle are either our own suckler bred or dairy reared ones. Autumn dairy bred angus heifers we can finish off of grass by 24 months. Spring born aiming to sell them as strong stores at roughly 18 months.

 

[Northern territory]

For me I wouldn’t be buying in the grass market would be better to buy in the autumn and carry for 11 months assuming there is housing. @Kernowkid may not have housing for that though.
Our cattle are either our own suckler bred or dairy reared ones. Autumn dairy bred angus heifers we can finish off of grass by 24 months. Spring born aiming to sell them as strong stores at roughly 18 months.

Good call, we buy at autumn sales, would certainly like to try something like this. Need to winter them as cheap as possible

 

[puppet]

That's cost of ownership not cost of production.

I agree -partly. The OP didn't say if they own or rent the grass, how much feed to get an 18 month steer fat by November, expected losses and transport/commission. The big variable is between buying and selling them where the money is made or lost. If beef drops to £2-50 again then may only be £100 difference when selling.
Bit like store lambs where every 4 years you will get fingers burnt

 

[ringi]

No need to TB test them if going to AFU

I thought AFU paid significantly lower price.

 

[ringi]

For me I wouldn’t be buying in the grass market would be better to buy in the autumn and carry for 11 months assuming there is housing

But then back to needing lots of costly equipment for TMR and building costs. But is it then best to use all land for TMR production and sell in the grass market?

 

[som farmer]

I keep thinking that it would be a great system until the year with a TB breakdown then have no flexibility to cope unless all cattle can always be sold finished in November.

But in a TB1 area would it be possible to have the TP test between November and March when there are no cattle?

interesting point.
if you have cattle, you have to test, between the 2 dates the min give you, simple.

however if you don't have cattle between the dates

min set the dates, so you probably don't have to.

 

[som farmer]

I thought AFU paid significantly lower price.

big stores at an orange market can be similar, or better than a conventional mkt.

and as you go down the age groups, the greater the difference

l have been told, the difference between calves for a tb approved unit, and the open mkt, is now very little different to open mkt, any difference is in quality, as in rubbish calves make the same, feck all.

 

[ringi]

Would make sence as the rules for a AFU are not an unreasonable way to run a large scale indoor finishing unit and avoiding TB testing requirements maybe enough to justify fencing costs.