Intensive cell grazing cattle

[Kiwi Pete]

He learned it from Johan Zietsman. "Man, Cattle, Veld" is something I listen to quite often

Yes and the science is all there if we want to look at it.
David Tongway's research into the factors that increase landscape function are well worth investigating - it's clear, robust, and peer-reviewed

 

[Woolless]

I agree, if the water infrastructure is in place to allow it. That isn't the case here

What's your water infrastructure like and how are you making a more intensive grazing system work with it?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Voss will not ship to the USA. At least that is what they told me. We have suppliers for wire in the US that do just as well as the Voss mixed metal poly. For runs over 400m, a internal tinned copper core wrapped by SS wires is what is needed.

They won't ship to the UK either now, as of last week

 

[Bury the Trash]

They won't ship to the UK either now, as of last week

seriously ?

dont they ahve a warehouse for some etock in uk i thought or is that a different company .

can get better fibre glass posts and steel clips elswhere but their wire and some of their insulators i cant find besides there..

 

[Poorbuthappy]

seriously ?

dont they ahve a warehouse for some etock in uk i thought or is that a different company .

can get better fibre glass posts and steel clips elswhere but their wire and some of their insulators i cant find besides there..

Just been trying to order from them and couldn't understand why there was no option for payment.
Daughter found notice saying no longer sending to UK due import issues
Their poultry nets are good, and wanted another fencer too, but will have to source elsewhere.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Just been trying to order from them and couldn't understand why there was no option for payment.
Daughter found notice saying no longer sending to UK due import issues
Their poultry nets are good, and wanted another fencer too, but will have to source elsewhere.

brexit

there big blue wire was the best ive used

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

interesting i really must try that change mind mind set to believe :

"it has stopped raining "

"It hasn t rained most days for the last few months "

"they never it into a muddy mess when moved before they even get chance to eat it "

" I am the Worlds best lover "


"theres faires at the bottom of the garden "


lol.

Outwintering cattle on any scale in most livestock areas of the UK is a pipe dream, it’s bad enough with sheep this winter. As I’ve posted before, there’s a reason why previous generations hauled stone and built barns for cattle

 

[som farmer]

Outwintering cattle on any scale in most livestock areas of the UK is a pipe dream, it’s bad enough with sheep this winter. As I’ve posted before, there’s a reason why previous generations hauled stone and built barns for cattle

there's also another reason for those stone walls, and barns, they didn't haul stone to them, they were built from stone that they cleared from the field.

seen stone walls 10ft wide, even seen barns built into them, on Dartmoor, a lot were built by French pow's during the Napoleonic wars. Courtesy of a visit to the farm, attached to HMP Dartmoor.

must have been some som Stoney old ground !

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

there's also another reason for those stone walls, and barns, they didn't haul stone to them, they were built from stone that they cleared from the field.

seen stone walls 10ft wide, even seen barns built into them, on Dartmoor, a lot were built by French pow's during the Napoleonic wars. Courtesy of a visit to the farm, attached to HMP Dartmoor.

must have been some som Stoney old ground !

That’s true to an extent but there’s plenty of buildings with cut stone. We have some land with old quarry holes, stone was quarried from those for walls. Field stones aren’t the best for walls, obviously I’m in a totally different area to you

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The OG "ag collage" ?

I thought that was just somewhere that people went if they couldn't spell college, now when I see that written I will see a collage made of different stones

On a more serious note many places here (regardless of topography or climate or soil) barely outwinter sheep either and often as not it's really poor landscape function responsible for that. Our neighbours have much bigger stations but are always bouncing off the bumpstops as far as feed goes, hence we graze their sheep for a fair period.

Summer and spring management largely dictates how rapidly you can build landscape function back, here conventional pasture management is very similar to UK, despite all the stories, we seem to hate our pastures just as much as you guys do.

Bear in mind it's only been farmed for a bit over 150 years, not 1500 years, and so this type of management along with wheel tractors is but a blink in history.
15 years would be enough time in today's world, with today's methods and models.

"Progress" that really is not progress from an ecological perspective, only repeated stressors and harming.

Through history people have wrecked the land and then moved on, the problem now is that there is nowhere to go to next : we've set-stocked ourselves.

The only way forward on our place, to get past what sheep have done to the landscape, is to use cattle to remediate that damage.

It can be a very quick and repeatable process, and what I would like to insert here is that "cell grazing" is really not necessary in order to improve the land, however it can be a useful tool to stop taking one step forward and two steps back. It can be extremely risky and damaging as well.

That's why I stated "it's a mindset thing" because the problems however they may occur, are all human problems.
Animals are fine.

 

[Old Tip]

@Kiwi Pete any out of the box suggestions for when we are grazing ground that can only be grazed within certain months because of schemes we have in the UK (not me that signed up to them!) and ground that floods/is too wet to carry cattle in the winter?

We mostly house at the moment, but the other obvious one is outwintering on arable ground (not sure how keen arable farmers would be round here) any other suggestions of systems you have tried or seen in action?

I am way behind Pete and many others but from my experience
The change in forage and soil structure means the carrying capacity in wet times is massively improved.
I’ve cut my housing over winter from seven months to three and some cattle never come in.
This has enabled me to cut my stored forage costs drastically and I have storage for a years worth of slurry.
Cut down to one tractor and minimal contractor costs.
Increased cattle numbers but have reduced sheep slightly
As Pete says it is a mind set thing and a lot of my neighbours think I’m mad but I have lots more time on my hands and less costs to service.
I can manage without the fleet of big tractors and massive machines

 

[ImLost]

I am way behind Pete and many others but from my experience
The change in forage and soil structure means the carrying capacity in wet times is massively improved.
I’ve cut my housing over winter from seven months to three and some cattle never come in.
This has enabled me to cut my stored forage costs drastically and I have storage for a years worth of slurry.
Cut down to one tractor and minimal contractor costs.
Increased cattle numbers but have reduced sheep slightly
As Pete says it is a mind set thing and a lot of my neighbours think I’m mad but I have lots more time on my hands and less costs to service.
I can manage without the fleet of big tractors and massive machines

This is what I want to work towards.

The thing restricting me at the moment is, the area I graze is below river level, which especially in a year like this has it's obvious challenges! The majority is marshland which is quite literally years worth of dead plant matter, basically floating. When a herd of cattle run past you, the ground underneath you moves like a giant jelly.

The interesting thing is, when the occasional few head have stayed on the marshes over winter, even when most is flooded and there is little to eat, they come off in very good condition, but you couldn't realistically do that with more than a handful.

On the other side of the river, there are farms that have more upland and I do know of a couple that outwinter some of their stock, including one that bale/stripgraze upland fields in the winter and summer out on the marshes.

The other challenge is the schemes that landowners sign up to, which even if the ground could hold cattle in the winter, a box ticker somewhere would say no. Does anyone have experience with applying for derogation's to graze later?

 

[Old Tip]

This is what I want to work towards.

The thing restricting me at the moment is, the area I graze is below river level, which especially in a year like this has it's obvious challenges! The majority is marshland which is quite literally years worth of dead plant matter, basically floating. When a herd of cattle run past you, the ground underneath you moves like a giant jelly.

The interesting thing is, when the occasional few head have stayed on the marshes over winter, even when most is flooded and there is little to eat, they come off in very good condition, but you couldn't realistically do that with more than a handful.

On the other side of the river, there are farms that have more upland and I do know of a couple that outwinter some of their stock, including one that bale/stripgraze upland fields in the winter and summer out on the marshes.

The other challenge is the schemes that landowners sign up to, which even if the ground could hold cattle in the winter, a box ticker somewhere would say no. Does anyone have experience with applying for derogation's to graze later?

In a way I do the opposite to you but my low level land is slightly better equipped than yours. A lot of the schemes now do allow cattle grazing in winter with provisions for supplementary feeding in hard times.
The big problem is most of the schemes are out of date and are based on the bad practices of the past (ring feeders).
It’s the main reason I have to house my cows for three months

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I am way behind Pete and many others but from my experience
The change in forage and soil structure means the carrying capacity in wet times is massively improved.
I’ve cut my housing over winter from seven months to three and some cattle never come in.
This has enabled me to cut my stored forage costs drastically and I have storage for a years worth of slurry.
Cut down to one tractor and minimal contractor costs.
Increased cattle numbers but have reduced sheep slightly
As Pete says it is a mind set thing and a lot of my neighbours think I’m mad but I have lots more time on my hands and less costs to service.
I can manage without the fleet of big tractors and massive machines

It's been really cool to follow your progress, @Karliboy and others.
Amazing what can be done with very little, compared to the mess many people make with very lots

Would like to re-emphasise just how much more flexible things can be with super-low costs, eg affording 3 or more months "off" simply because all the dough didn't go out the door - that's one way to save your soil over winter, make your money before it sets in wet and cold. Keep what needs kept, keep your sanity

 

[Northern territory]

I am way behind Pete and many others but from my experience
The change in forage and soil structure means the carrying capacity in wet times is massively improved.
I’ve cut my housing over winter from seven months to three and some cattle never come in.
This has enabled me to cut my stored forage costs drastically and I have storage for a years worth of slurry.
Cut down to one tractor and minimal contractor costs.
Increased cattle numbers but have reduced sheep slightly
As Pete says it is a mind set thing and a lot of my neighbours think I’m mad but I have lots more time on my hands and less costs to service.
I can manage without the fleet of big tractors and massive machines

How do you find it with the sheep? Are you grazing long covers ?

 

[TelesnaAg]

Will they have adequate shelter and shade from the elements??

Fertilising each cell or is there enough gap rotation wise to do 5 cells at once??

If it gets wet at start/end of season is thwre a means of managing that? Feed pads etc, gravel tracks.

I see many try it in oz, some suceed but alot of gains are blown off from not managing the above so they give up.

Ant...

 

[ringi]

Fertilising each cell or is there enough gap rotation wise to do 5 cells at once

A long recover time and clover etc should remove need for fert unless taking hay/silage of the land. (Assuming starting with reasonable P&K and PH is OK)

 

[Old Tip]

How do you find it with the sheep? Are you grazing long covers ?

Not as long as with cattle but it is interesting how they tend to graze all the seed heads and flowers first then the leafy stuff. Worm burden is much reduced as they never graze down low enough to pick them up during the summer. But have come unstuck with them getting a big dose of worms late autumn this time.
im working on small fields and moving ever week so not cell grazing, I think you just have to adapt to your own farm and circumstances.

 

[Old Tip]

Will they have adequate shelter and shade from the elements??

Fertilising each cell or is there enough gap rotation wise to do 5 cells at once??

If it gets wet at start/end of season is thwre a means of managing that? Feed pads etc, gravel tracks.

I see many try it in oz, some suceed but alot of gains are blown off from not managing the above so they give up.

Ant...

No feet messed as the animal manure is all in the right place and in the right form.
The whole idea of keeping them tight is they don’t all poo in the same corner but evenly across the cell.
The deeper roots and extra vegetation mean the land is much more sustainable in wet weather. No fert means all the roots went at the surface waiting for the next fix but deeper and sturdier. Ryegrass is your enemy to be blunt you need a different sward and more variety

 

[Old Tip]

No feet messed as the animal manure is all in the right place and in the right form.
The whole idea of keeping them tight is they don’t all poo in the same corner but evenly across the cell.
The deeper roots and extra vegetation mean the land is much more sustainable in wet weather. No fert means all the roots went at the surface waiting for the next fix but deeper and sturdier. Ryegrass is your enemy to be blunt you need a different sward and more variety

That’s supposed to say, no fert needed