International 574 hy-trans or not?

[Alexm]

l am new to this forum lark and it may be that the answer to this is already somewhere, but I can't find it!
My recently acquired IH 574 operators manual suggests ONLY hy-trans oil should be used in the transmission, but there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice on the internet about its use or replacement with universal oil. I have looked at various prices and options, and 20-25 litres looks to be around £50 for utto, while Morris Liquimatic HY is around £75. Is the Morris oil even a good direct replacement for hy-trans anyway?
ANY advice would be greatly appreciated, and suggestions for a good replacement oil.

 

[76masseyman]

Hy-Trans was never anything special in the first place.
When it was MS 1207 spec', it was a 10w/30 grade UTTO with a red dye, and a good marketing ploy behind it.
It was then upgraded to MS 1209, but became a 10w/20 grade. Most lubricant companies, including Morris Lubricants, made a direct equivalent, with a complete warranty suitable additive package, but kept it as a 10w/30 grade. Some companies did it as a 10w/20 like Case.
The spec' then became MS 1210, and changed name to Hy-Tran Ultra Action, and the grade became 10w/30 again.
Due to the Case / New Holland merger, some spec's ran alongside each other, so an inter company sort out resulted in a spec' of CNH MAT 3540.

Basically, a good UTTO 10w/30, from a reputable lubricant supplier, will be more than suitable for your tractor.

 

[Qman]

I have been using JD Hygard in my IH 475 for a few years with no problems. So as 76masseyman says use a good UTTO.

 

[essexpete]

I have used Q8 UTTO (2000) for several years in an 895 and also used in a Ford 8340. I think the problem lay in a different era where the early universal oils were perhaps not suitable for a 1970s ih system.

 

[Exfarmer]

It was always about selling overpriced oil

 

[milkloss]

I'm not so sure. My understanding is that hytran has a superior ability to absord water away from clutch packs that the water would destroy. If your tractor had no such thing then crack on with a good quality utto. Have been using such in 956, 885 and Maxxum 5130 (could be pushing my luck with themaxxum I feel).

Morris liquimatic is good by all accounts

 

[bravheart]

Spoiler first,
This may be completely WRONG so don't wreck your back end without checking first
When a 674 joined a fleet of 165's the question was asked, what happens when using the hydraulics on the tractors and universal oil ending up in the IH transmission. Pretty sure we were shown another mark near the top of the dipstick and told that we could use universal oil in the IH if we filled it up to that mark.
In those days all we had was a 45 gallon drum of universal sat on a trestle for all tractors and machinery.

aaaaasaaaaaah bliss!

 

[Qman]

My son was a mechanic at IH dealer Lomas Tractors while the 74 series tractors were made. He reckoned they had trouble when farmers used universal oil especially when the tractor had a TA because the 20W-30 oil was too thick. I've had several IH tractors and because of this I always used HyTran, but for the last few years I've used a UTTO because of the mixing of oils when tipping.

My advice to the OP is to use UTTO such as Morris Liquimatic JDF or Morris Liquimatic HY which is their HyTran.

 

[Snoopy]

I was talking to Northern Oils who say the modern UTTO meets the standards for most back end needs including those nice green and yellow machines, but if you need transmission oil with wet brake additive you need something else. Found them really helpful and good prices.

 

[essexpete]

I was talking to Northern Oils who say the modern UTTO meets the standards for most back end needs including those nice green and yellow machines, but if you need transmission oil with wet brake additive you need something else. Found them really helpful and good prices.

I would have thought a modern UTTO was designed for wet brakes?

 

[Qman]

I would have thought a modern UTTO was designed for wet brakes?

That's what I thought!

 

[bravheart]

he's got me worried now

 

[Snoopy]

Just check with your supplier or it has WBS on the spec

 

[Snoopy]

Below is the TDS for the Aztec Northern Oils UTTO, There is a different product if Case Trans Axle is needed
Benefits:
Superior oxidation stability, Outstanding rust and corrosion protection, Excellent wet brake, anti-squawk and chatter suppression, Exceptional anti-wear and extreme pressure properties, Excellent high and low temperature performance, Low foaming tendency and good seal compatibility
Applications:
Semi Synthetic UTTO 10w/40 is suitable for use in hydraulic – transmission fluid, specifically designed for use in agricultural tractor power transmission – hydraulic systems, inboard wet brakes and rear axles, employed in the majority of modern farm tractors, agricultural machinery and some construction equipment.
Product Profile:
Kubota UDT Fluid, Valtra G2-08 John Deere JDM J20C, J20D Ford ESN-M2C86B 86C, M2C-134D Massey Ferguson MF CMS 1135, MF CMS 1141 MF CMS 1143, MF CMS 1145, Allison C-4, Caterpillar T0-2, Case MS 1210 Case New Holland CNH MAT3505, 3509, 3525. ZF TE- ML 03E, 05F,06K, 17E, 21F VCE WB101, Agco Powerfluid 821XL

Just need to check Bravheart

 

[PostHarvest]

I was a design engineer at IH, Neale Road, Doncaster in the 1970's dealing mainly with hydraulics. We were told that the seals in IH tractors were a special blend of rubber that was matched to the characteristics of the Hy-Tran oil and that if another oil was used the seals would go hard and leak. I never tested it but I know that IH used all sorts of tricks to make customers buy genuine parts, like using their own thread forms on bolts and hydraulic connections that had cones with a 37,5 degree angle rather than the standard 45 degrees. BTW, Hy-tran was blended for IH by Daltons Silkolene at Belper which is now Fuchs oils.

 

[Longneck]

So what about on newer case ih tractors, do you still need Hy tran in a magnum or could you use JDF?

 

[McSpreading]

Used to work for a company that specialised in lube oil distribution. Gave them all the specs on different HyTran containers I had over the years and they couldn't pinpoint a common factor. Think I will try some of the alternatives suggested for next service!

 

[startinghandle]

from 1976-80 I worked at Mid Wales main IH dealer and hytran was only to be used in transmission and when I left I went to work at firm that made buildings but I still did IH repairs at weekends and I used hytran but I had problems getting paid so I give it up but a while ago I was asked to service a 684 and it needed transmission oil and to come straight to the point there was no more IH dealer so I contacted lubricant supplier who informed me that he used to work at silkolene and he remembers a large amount of IH hytran drums been stacked there he informed me that IH kept that a secret he also said that UTTO was ok for IH transmission.
I would like to ask postharvest a question and that is why did IH end production of the 62 hp
474 tractor fitted with IH engine and bring out the 475 62hp tractor with perkins engine

 

[PostHarvest]

Most tractor engines fitted by IH in Doncaster came from the Neuss engine plant in Germany. About 1975 - I think - there was a price increase. I can't remember whether it was due to currency rate changes or just a move by Neuss to raise their prices. The Doncaster plant refused to pay the increase and bought Perkins engines which were cheaper because they were built in the UK.

 

[glasshouse]

was the 474 engine not pretty poor, out of a combine or something?
475 was good