Is D/D reducing Black Grass on your farm.

[Pilatus]

Are you finding that direct drilling, "REALLY", is reducing black grass on your farm,as I believe in theory it is meant to.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I doubt it will unless your willing to change rotation. Blackgrass is a problem because of herbicide resistance/efficacy so drilling technique isn't going to solve that I wouldn't think.

 

[Clive]

DD might make things worse ?

Uld or zero till will help in conjunction with rotation and other changes

 

[Pilatus]

I thought from the little that I have read , that with zero /till and D/D ,(sorry I thought they were the same thing) one is not disturbing the soil seed bank of Black Grass seed and so one gradually reduces it,over a period of time with the use of rotations and herbicdes.
Although not farming in my self any more,(blackgrass was not about on the Cotswolds then )I like to keep up with your direct drilling techniques,as I am sure that it is the way to go to reduce capital expenditure on huge tractors and the implements to go behind them and then there is the diesel to fuel them.
It was low grain prices that partly forced Canadian farmers in to D/D and zero till, you guys are ahead of the game.

 

[yellow belly]

I am of the view that dd autocast and some spring crops reduces bg

imho residuel sprays work better in a no till seed bed as weeds have shallow roots and do not come from depth

I have one block of land that has very low bg now but had plenty of bg in the 1990s
the last 14 years cropping
spring rape spring linseed wwheat rape dd wheat min till rape autocast wheat min till rape autocast wheat mintill winter beans sub tilled (elimination of bg by using crawler )wheat dd rape subtill s barley autumn min till spring bean dd

in 5 years time I will know better

imho dd /very shallow min till or plough to reduce bg

the maxi till systems make bg worse as it germinates from depth all through the season
low crop plant populations also allow some bg to seed every year especially in rape on the heaviest land

 

[Badshot]

I am of the view that dd autocast and some spring crops reduces bg

imho residuel sprays work better in a no till seed bed as weeds have shallow roots and do not come from depth

I have one block of land that has very low bg now but had plenty of bg in the 1990s
the last 14 years cropping
spring rape spring linseed wwheat rape dd wheat min till rape autocast wheat min till rape autocast wheat mintill winter beans sub tilled (elimination of bg by using crawler )wheat dd rape subtill s barley autumn min till spring bean dd

in 5 years time I will know better

imho dd /very shallow min till or plough to reduce bg

the maxi till systems make bg worse as it germinates from depth all through the season
low crop plant populations also allow some bg to seed every year especially in rape on the heaviest land

"I have one block of land that has very low bg now but had plenty of bg in the 1990s"

Funny you should say that, where I used to have a blackgrass problem 15 years ago it is now almost non existent, but I have it in other places now. Pretty damn sure some is coming from the neighbour as two fields that border him both have it that side but not the other. You could almost turf his at the minute too.

 

[SilliamWhale]

"I have one block of land that has very low bg now but had plenty of bg in the 1990s"

Funny you should say that, where I used to have a blackgrass problem 15 years ago it is now almost non existent, but I have it in other places now. Pretty damn sure some is coming from the neighbour as two fields that border him both have it that side but not the other. You could almost turf his at the minute too.

There still seem to be two separate issus though and get treated as the same. One being herbicide efficiency and the other being germination depth. Fair comment or not?

 

[Badshot]

There still seem to be two separate issus though and get treated as the same. One being herbicide efficiency and the other being germination depth. Fair comment or not?

Yes very fair comment, there is definitely BG that comes up from deeper than the residuals can tackle under a maxi till regime. Compounded by atlantis and other contact herbicides having maybe 3 useful kills before being next to useless for BG. Both could be taken for resistance though, and only testing will tell the truth.

 

[Old John]

We were doing continuous wheat for about twenty years until bg was getting the better of us. Ploughing for ten years or so, then mix of dd and very shallow min till. Brought OSR into rotation one year in three,(hate OSR) about seven years ago, OSR always dd'ed, but have got on top of 95%+ of bg, but bringing spring beans in on some fields next year to hopefully finish it off.
One our neighbours has been ploughing etc and another deep min till and I think their bg has got worse over the last 25 years or so.

 

[Simon C]

"One years weeds, seven years weeds"

That's what they used to say, but it is referring to conventional tillage farming. In no-till I find that one years seeds only results in ONE years weeds. If the seeds are left on the surface they will never stay dormant until the following year, something will happen to them, whether they grow, rot or get eaten. If you are successful and have no seed return one year, you may get some previous years seeds germinate from just below the surface due to cracking or other shallow disturbance the next year, but I have found that if I get two consecutive years without and blackgrass seed being produced, I then have a blackgrass free field.

 

[Badshot]

"One years weeds, seven years weeds"

That's what they used to say, but it is referring to conventional tillage farming. In no-till I find that one years seeds only results in ONE years weeds. If the seeds are left on the surface they will never stay dormant until the following year, something will happen to them, whether they grow, rot or get eaten. If you are successful and have no seed return one year, you may get some previous years seeds germinate from just below the surface due to cracking or other shallow disturbance the next year, but I have found that if I get two consecutive years without and blackgrass seed being produced, I then have a blackgrass free field.

I live in hope then.

 

[yellow belly]

"One years weeds, seven years weeds"

That's what they used to say, but it is referring to conventional tillage farming. In no-till I find that one years seeds only results in ONE years weeds. If the seeds are left on the surface they will never stay dormant until the following year, something will happen to them, whether they grow, rot or get eaten. If you are successful and have no seed return one year, you may get some previous years seeds germinate from just below the surface due to cracking or other shallow disturbance the next year, but I have found that if I get two consecutive years without and blackgrass seed being produced, I then have a blackgrass free field.

so if by ploughing properly(not many ploughmen good enough on heavy land can do it well enough ) and not allowing any bg seeds to break through then notill bg could be beaten
I am on the lookout for the right plough if bg becomes uncontrollable with notill in the future

 

[rob1]

"One years weeds, seven years weeds"

That's what they used to say, but it is referring to conventional tillage farming. In no-till I find that one years seeds only results in ONE years weeds. If the seeds are left on the surface they will never stay dormant until the following year, something will happen to them, whether they grow, rot or get eaten. If you are successful and have no seed return one year, you may get some previous years seeds germinate from just below the surface due to cracking or other shallow disturbance the next year, but I have found that if I get two consecutive years without and blackgrass seed being produced, I then have a blackgrass free field.

You know far more than me about dd'ing but I would agree totally with that, keep it on the surface,but must follow a policy to kill 100% in the first few years to allow no seed return, even if that means pulling the last few by hand each season