Is it legal????

[kill]

I have recently (3+ weeks ago) purchased a machine from a farmer around 150 miles away and after several phone calls and texts he has not given me an invoice but has charged me vat.
While he was talking about another machine he had for sale via eBay he stated he had not paid vat at the time of purchase but would be charging and pocketing the vat????
This must be totally ilegail????
How do I stand if he's trying it with me???? Do I end up losing my vat without an invoice.
Machine was around 6k + vat so £1200
Machine has not been delivered yet!!!! But hoping invoice maybe with it.

 

[Farfrae]

From HMRC website

'Only VAT-registered businesses can issue VAT invoices and if you’re VAT-registered, you MUST (my capitals) issue a VAT invoice whenever you supply standard rate or reduced rate goods or services to another VAT-registered person. Normally you must issue a VAT invoice within 30 days of the date you make the supply.'

 

[Henarar]

have you paid for it ?

 

[johnspeehs]

I take it you have paid already? If he’s vat registered and charging vat he has to supply an invoice. Can’t really see how he could charge you another £1200 on top of what was agreed unless he’s a real chancer

 

[spin cycle]

reminds me of katie izzet in the sitcom....yummy

 

[kill]

have you paid for it ?

Yes.
My plan is to get the machine in my yard and then give him 24 hours to produce an invoice and threaten/ promise as it will happen to report him. I guess the threat should be enough if it's a habit and not a one off .
Any other suggestions?

 

[spin cycle]

Yes.
My plan is to get the machine in my yard and then give him 24 hours to produce an invoice and threaten/ promise as it will happen to report him. I guess the threat should be enough if it's a habit and not a one off .
Any other suggestions?

blimey giving someone £7200 upfront who lives 150 miles away is trusting

 

[kill]

blimey giving someone £7200 upfront who lives 150 miles away is trusting

I saw the machine and had a demo. It's a feeder wagon

 

[johnspeehs]

Yes the threat will probably be enough as long as he is actually registered for vat , what’s your gut feeling about the guy?. Not many would want to chance a run in with hmrc.

 

[spin cycle]

I saw the machine and had a demo. It's a feeder wagon

even so m8....what if a different machine turns up?.....not dissing you....just brave IMO

 

[Princess Pooper]

I hope you at least get the machine cos it all sounds a bit dodgy to me. He may legitimately have bought the machine from a non VAT registered business so not paid VAT on it. But if he is VAT registered he has to charge you VAT but he has to give you a legit VAT invoice so you can claim it back. If he is not VAT registered (not likely if he is a farmer) then he cannot charge you VAT. Report him to HMRC and Trading standards if he does not provide the paperwork. You may find if he has cashflow issues he is delaying giving you an invoice until after 30 Sept thinking he can kick the output VAT back a month.

 

[johnspeehs]

But you bought it for 6k plus vat ? Any emails , texts with this on it ?

 

[LincsLongwool]

Sounds dodgy. Anyway, as soon as it arrives on your yard, I guess he hasn't got much against you.

 

[spin cycle]

I hope you at least get the machine cos it all sounds a bit dodgy to me. He may legitimately have bought the machine from a non VAT registered business so not paid VAT on it. But if he is VAT registered he has to charge you VAT but he has to give you a legit VAT invoice so you can claim it back. If he is not VAT registered (not likely if he is a farmer) then he cannot charge you VAT. Report him to HMRC and Trading standards if he does not provide the paperwork. You may find if he has cashflow issues he is delaying giving you an invoice until after 30 Sept thinking he can kick the output VAT back a month.

that sounds plausible

 

[johnspeehs]

Sounds dodgy. Anyway, as soon as it arrives on your yard, I guess he hasn't got much against you.

It does a bit but it is a Farmer we are talking about, paper work isn’t a strong point with a lot of us , I’d say it will prob be grand.

 

[David.]

If you have no invoice you cannot legitimately reclaim VAT.

 

[bobk]

Paying before delivery is brave , paying before delivery without an invoice is brainless , hope it works out ok .

 

[LincsLongwool]

same over here. we have mounds of paperwork which has never really been done. luckily we have locals to help.

 

[kill]

even so m8....what if a different machine turns up?.....not dissing you....just brave IMO

I have bought kit privately all over the country and only been stitched up once by a very large haylage producer from Melton Mowbary area that sold me a heap of very defective square baler parts for £500 and when I returned them he never gave me my money back.

Sold a few bits of kit and some have even turned up with bank statements to show they are good for the money.

 

[LincsLongwool]

I have bought kit privately all over the country and only been stitched up once by a very large haulage producer from Melton Mowberry area that sold me a heap of very defective baler parts for £500 and when returned never gave me my money back

You should try visiting the dealer, or atleast getting some images, not dissing you, just giving you some advice.