is it worth it?

[DKnD]

Which brings me neatly to this....

 

[Wooly]

As my bank manager says, 'When you look at figures for farm produce they just don't stack up, but somehow Farmers make it work'

My accountant recons that Tenant farmers are always more astute than farmers that inherit their ground. They also make more profit even after paying a rent.



Not sure how some will cope after the SFP goes !



(Edit BPS not SFP..... although I expect a still waiting for SFP ! )

 

[Hilly]

As my bank manager says, 'When you look at figures for farm produce they just don't stack up, but somehow Farmers make it work'

My accountant recons that Tenant farmers are always more astute than farmers that inherit their ground. They also make more profit even after paying a rent.



Not sure how some will cope after the SFP goes !

SFP Has long gone.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

As my bank manager says, 'When you look at figures for farm produce they just don't stack up, but somehow Farmers make it work'

My accountant recons that Tenant farmers are always more astute than farmers that inherit their ground. They also make more profit even after paying a rent.



Not sure how some will cope after the SFP goes !

Thats your problem, no buisiness can compete with the chap who makes it work,

 

[stewart]

Yes, I see your point, we get to live in a nice house, in a nice spot etc, etc.....but....there's an awfully high percentage of the population on £100k + , so even allowing for tax etc, that's a far cry from us peasants breaking even ?

If you are genuinely concerned that a high percentage of the population are high earners whilst you are a peasant breaking even, why not join them and see what it is really like outside the farm gate?

 

[wanderer]

Yes, we chew bits of straw for entertainment.

Roughage is good for the bowels.

 

[The Agrarian]

I think the truth about farming, well at least the small and medium family variety that I'm familiar with, is that the way most of those businesses are taxed covers the reality of profitability. Self-employment is the worst lens through which to view profit. Fine for a guy with his own van, who bends copper pipes for a living, but not for a business with interests in the millions of pounds.

If all of those businesses were limited, and the managing director paid a realistic directors salary - perhaps £40, 60 or 100k? - each and every year regardless of profit, then I think profit would in most cases not stack up as an investment for the shareholder(s).

 

[stewart]

I think the truth about farming, well at least the small and medium family variety that I'm familiar with, is that the way most of those businesses are taxed covers the reality of profitability. Self-employment is the worst lens through which to view profit. Fine for a guy with his own van, who bends copper pipes for a living, but not for a business with interests in the millions of pounds.

If all of those businesses were limited, and the managing director paid a realistic directors salary - perhaps £40, 60 or 100k? - each and every year regardless of profit, then I think profit woul in most cases not stack up as an investment for the shareholder(s).

If you are going to look at a farm as Limited company, expecting to pay the managing director a substantial salary and it doesn't pay then sell it, as you would with any other company.

Actually you may be forced into liquidation as directors are responsible for making sure the company is solvent.

 

[The Agrarian]

Well, exactly.

 

[brigadoon]

Just remember if £26500 is the average, then a lot of people earn much less than that. Life outside of farming is not all sh*ts and giggles. Although, at the same time, a lot of people are just thick as sh*t!!

Ah - logic - yes if the average wage is £26.5k then the vast majority of folks earn a lot less

 

[Northeastfarmer]

When my next door neighbour retired....he said to me he’d spent his entire working life keeping everybody else in a lifestyle more luxurious than his own

 

[DrWazzock]

What happens if the farm is part of a famiy trust so that it can't be sold off easily? It would be a total disaster for farmers in that position.

Family trusts are a nightmare. Just because the farm was viable when the trust was set up in 1936 doesn't mean it is viable now. If it isn't working then let the trustees find somebody else to farm it and do something else.

I know of several trusts in this area where the farm is far too small or the benefactors of the trust just aren't interested (and who can blame them) and so the trustees let the farm on an FBT or some such arrangement to a larger neighbour. There are ways and means.

This farm was left in trust to old absent relatives. Best thing that ever happened was when the trust was wound up voluntarily and we bought them out. The whole thing was like a black cloud that hung over the place. You never knew when they might sell it up or to whom.

 

[wanderer]

Family trusts are a nightmare. Just because the farm was viable when the trust was set up in 1936 doesn't mean it is viable now. If it isn't working then let the trustees find somebody else to farm it and do something else.

I know of several trusts in this area where the farm is far too small or the benefactors of the trust just aren't interested (and who can blame them) and so the trustees let the farm on an FBT or some such arrangement to a larger neighbour. There are ways and means.

This farm was left in trust to old absent relatives. Best thing that ever happened was when the trust was wound up voluntarily and we bought them out. The whole thing was like a black cloud that hung over the place. You never knew when they might sell it up or to whom.

Thanks for that. I have a contact who lets me field walk on their land who is in that position. Massive country home and it was going to the dogs for years until they let out the land to contractors who farm it for them. All seems to be getting back on it's feet again which is good to see.

I guess that is one way around it knowing how complex the situation was and having no heir to carry on the farm.

 

[milkloss]

Family trusts are a nightmare. Just because the farm was viable when the trust was set up in 1936 doesn't mean it is viable now. If it isn't working then let the trustees find somebody else to farm it and do something else.

I know of several trusts in this area where the farm is far too small or the benefactors of the trust just aren't interested (and who can blame them) and so the trustees let the farm on an FBT or some such arrangement to a larger neighbour. There are ways and means.

This farm was left in trust to old absent relatives. Best thing that ever happened was when the trust was wound up voluntarily and we bought them out. The whole thing was like a black cloud that hung over the place. You never knew when they might sell it up or to whom.

Trusts are fine if they include a chunk of liquid assets which enables beneficiaries to strike deals without selling land. My understanding is that trusts can be written that don’t tie the asset down as land and certainly not a particular patch of land. It could be a portfolio of investments such as stocks, bonds, residential property, cash etc etc. And can be switched about at will provided all involved agree. I think maybe it’s just that the people involved either don’t understand the trust or for whatever reason are actually unwilling to sell or tell others.

 

[DRC]

As my bank manager says, 'When you look at figures for farm produce they just don't stack up, but somehow Farmers make it work'

My accountant recons that Tenant farmers are always more astute than farmers that inherit their ground. They also make more profit even after paying a rent.



Not sure how some will cope after the SFP goes !



(Edit BPS not SFP..... although I expect a still waiting for SFP ! )

I was thinking the same thing. I'm a tenant that pays over £30k a year rent, yet have somehow managed to make a living and raise a family. Yet some on here that own farms, moan like hell and seemily scratch a living.
Some think that spending all day in markets gossiping, is actually working. Maybe the truth is that they just aren't very good at it!

 

[DrWazzock]

It all depends on the trustees. Some are fine and work for the trust. Some aren't and work for themselves.

 

[Breakthru]

I ask this in all seriousness, what with the rising cost of compund feed(( just been told its going up 15 pound a ton) all the agro of looking after the animals, called the vet out, cost best part of 300 pounds how do you make any money out of it? Also got a big load of agro with company called wateraid who took over from essex and suffolk bill has gone right up?

Sell the livestock or involve a neighbour in a share farming arrangement and take an outside job.
Spoke to a builder fishing on the Tweed and he is paying £150 a day for labourers and can't get them. If you have forklift certs for instance that is all to the good.
That's £39500 a year for a five day week so not counting Saturday overtime. Believe me its much easier work than farming however not as enjoyable. Its a lifestyle choice but you should never work for a loss.
A cattle dealer I know rents a shed for 200 but this year it will stay empty as feed and straw costs are too steep.

 

[DrWazzock]

I was thinking the same thing. I'm a tenant that pays over £30k a year rent, yet have somehow managed to make a living and raise a family. Yet some on here that own farms, moan like hell and seemily scratch a living.
Some think that spending all day in markets gossiping, is actually working. Maybe the truth is that they just aren't very good at it!

It is now a specialist and professional occupation. This situation has crept up on many people over the last 30 years, myself included.

Is it possible nowadays to do everything or at least be completely au fait with everything on a mixed farm yourself? I don't think so. Having to move to an electronic accounts package is just about the last straw for us.

When I look at all the extra bureaucratic stuff we have to deal with nowadays and all the dodges and fickle concoctions required to save a crop from weeds and pestilence I wonder what my grandparents would have made of it.

 

[wanderer]

It is now a specialist and professional occupation. This situation has crept up on many people over the last 30 years, myself included.

Is it possible nowadays to do everything or at least be completely au fait with everything on a mixed farm yourself? I don't think so. Having to move to an electronic accounts package is just about the last straw for us.

When I look at all the extra bureaucratic stuff we have to deal with nowadays and all the dodges and fickle concoctions required to save a crop from weeds and pestilence I wonder what my grandparents would have made of it.

The construction trade is just the same and that is why I decided to walk away. I could do that with no residual issues whereas it is not so straight forward for farmers. Everywhere is red tape and rules and all of my lads had to get certificates for the most inane reasons... all costing money of course.

The last straw for me was being ticked off for not wearing a hard hat and high vis in the middle of an empty field. Maybe the petty little health and safety nazi was worried the sky would fall in.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Those who took the risk of borrowing money to buy a farm when interest rate was hitting 17% went through a journey that i wont bother to explain to those to ignorant to understand . My dad has long gone but i saw first hand how hard he worked along side us to get us to where we were