Is strip till a bit of a theoretical idea on some soils due to stone?

[Pilatus]

I am only an on looker, but from what I have seen on the stony Cotswolds ,that the stoniess of the soils means that nearly all the soil is moved . The fields have been drilled by a Mzuri but I am sure the effect would be the same whatever the make of drill.
I was thinking the same effect would happen on the Wilts,Hants and Dorset flint etc.

 

[JNG]

Lots of stone over here in Ireland also and you have a point. Also lots of extra stone picking required after strip till, good for fitness levels ????

 

[Pilatus]

Thank you for your post JNG . I have walked fields that a Dale drill has seeded on stony land and nearly all the soil is moved in the stony areas and from what I see the Dale drill is classed as a direct drill ??

 

[dontknowanything]

DD ryegrass in NZ

 

[Pilatus]

DD ryegrass in NZ

View attachment 150034

Thank you for the picture,I am sure I have seen it on TFF before .Do you know the make and type of drill that drilled the grass seed. In my opinion ,I am convinced, that what ever type of drill one use's, to drill in stone like in the pic or nearly as bad as that , the drill coulter if disc Zero/till, e.g JD 750A will ride over a lot of the stone or if a tine D/D like on the e,g Dale or Seedhawk most of the soil/stones will be moved and the same would happen if using a so say strip till drill e.g Claydon /Mzuri, which is why I posted this thread. I see there are some large gaps in some rows which is inevitable in very stony land,that is why I think the first year one direct drills the very stony land it needs to be plough/pressed to try and get a bit of a mix of soil and stone, then heavy rolled then zero till ed with a disc drill to try and avoid moving as little of the soil/stone mix as possible. One will then hopefully have more even down the row plant coverage for a few years, straw harrowing residues would be the main culprit for moving the stone and in so doing shaking stone to the surface which covers what little soil there is.
Hopefully very few of you are farming extremely stony land ,so you will not really fully understand the problems I am tying to get at.

 

[Brisel]

DD ryegrass in NZ

View attachment 150034

That looks like a river bed or an ex glacial alluvium.

Was that established with a disc or a tine drill?

 

[Brisel]

How does yours compare to this, MX7? Brash stone is flatter but wider than Downland flint I suppose.

At least you can see some soil unlike the NZ photo.

 

[Pilatus]

These 2 pics hopefully shows Cotswold brash as it is in the worst areas.

 

[farmingfred]

With our first spring season zero till on our flinty land we have seen a big difference where there was a cover crop. The roots held the soil together better, and the stones seemed to be moved less than on ground where there was a lot of flint and NO cover crop, a lot more soil and stones moved. Yes the discs ride over the odd flint and push some to the side, this is preferable to a tine flicking all the stones onto the surface all the time.

 

[Brisel]

These 2 pics hopefully shows Cotswold brash as it is in the worst areas.

Good God. That needs 50t/ha of organic matter on it every year for the next 10 years to help put some material over those stones. Worth stone picking IMO.

 

[Simon Chiles]

How does yours compare to this, MX7? Brash stone is flatter but wider than Downland flint I suppose.

At least you can see some soil unlike the NZ photo. View attachment 150864

Used to drill 1000 acres a year like that with a 750 until he bought his own!! You'll end up with twice as many stones, they'll just be smaller.

 

[Pilatus]

Good God. That needs 50t/ha of organic matter on it every year for the next 10 years to help put some material over those stones. Worth stone picking IMO.

Perhaps you can see why I started this thread. No joking matter.
But as said before the situation does not effect many of you,so I can understand so few replies to my thread.

 

[benferg]

You would be amazed at how quickly a soil can change....

I have seen paddocks with rugby ball sized stones and bigger that now look a lot better after going through several seasons of kale and then back to grass.
While a jd drill tends to go over a lot of stone the down pressure of the cs drill tends to punch aside the stones more.
Given time grass tends to grow over stones. Think the key is to not use a tine cultivator or drill. Keep pressing the stones down rather than up if you have to cultivate the paddock.
I have several 100 hectares of paddocks that have Ben converted out of riverbed scrub that are now grazing dairy cows

I don't know enough about strip tillage as we aren't into maize

 

[H.Jackson]

these are some pics of linseed sown this spring after sheep grazed turnips the disc has done us proud here.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Good God. That needs 50t/ha of organic matter on it every year for the next 10 years to help put some material over those stones. Worth stone picking IMO.

Whos organic matter? Another farms?

 

[Brisel]

Does it matter? Either the stones have to go off the field or "soil" has to be made from OM, imported or home grown. Preferably the latter.

 

[Old John]

Does it matter? Either the stones have to go off the field or "soil" has to be made from OM, imported or home grown. Preferably the latter.

Those stones must be worth a fortune. Better to sell them than farm them?

 

[Brisel]

It would cost a fortune to gather them up & they don't look big enough for the buildings market.