Ivermectin , covid cure

[Cowabunga]

Can you direct me to a link where it demonstrates molnupiravir is mutagenic? Not that this would of course would actually preclude it from being used. Many chemotherapeutic agents are themselves recognised carcinogens.

It hasn't been tested and you make great play about peer reviewed official trails when it suits you but completely ignore the fact that the vaccines and Molnupiravir, which is suspected of potentially being able to mutate human DNA due to its chemistry, have not been trialled in any significant way before receiving 'emergency use' licences. Not that Molnupiravir has gained the license yet but it has been applied for and is widely expected to get it regardless.

Double standards on your part blatantly exhibited.

 

[ollie989898]

It hasn't been tested and you make great play about peer reviewed official trails when it suits you but completely ignore the fact that the vaccines and Molnupiravir, which is suspected of potentially being able to mutate human DNA due to its chemistry, have not been trialled in any significant way before receiving 'emergency use' licences. Not that Molnupiravir has gained the license yet but it has been applied for and is widely expected to get it regardless.

Double standards on your part blatantly exhibited.

I believe I linked a reference detailing trials of both the Pfizer vaccine and the molunpiravir not long ago on this thread, I may be, mistaken however. Maybe your doctor geezer has a good video on them?

You don't think Japan's covid case rates etc might be due to their vaccination rate then?

 

[Cowabunga]

I believe I linked a reference detailing trials of both the Pfizer vaccine and the molunpiravir not long ago on this thread, I may be, mistaken however. Maybe your doctor geezer has a good video on them?

You don't think Japan's covid case rates etc might be due to their vaccination rate then?

There were no thorough trials before the vaccines were approved under 'emergency license'. Ordinarily they would not have been approved until such trials were completed. The same emergency licensing is applied for Molnupiravir after only one limited trial by the manufacturer itself, which is set to make $Billions from its sale at around $700 per five day course. No specific trials whatsoever over its general safety let alone ones that would ordinarily be expected before granting a full license.

No. Japan was very well vaccinated indeed well before the alarming breakthrough viral infection spike that caused them to offer Ivermectin, almost in panic. Within two weeks the rate of infection declined just as rapidly as it had risen, down indeed to current negligible levels.

It is noted that you avoid the double standards issue where you extol certain untested products but demonise others that have been clinically proven with a 40 year clean safety record.

 

[farenheit]

Japan! I don't believe in coincidences.
The date where the yellow pointer is situated is when Ivermectin was first allowed to be prescribed by all Japanese doctors without prescription and the population were otherwise allowed to buy it with no restriction or prescription.

View attachment 999579

Oh look, the yellow pointer of John Campbell...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463493914816655361

And fullfact on the same: https://fullfact.org/health/japan-not-using-ivermectin-instead-vaccines-treat-covid-19/

 

[ollie989898]

Is this doctor bloke still on the nursing register because I do believe he is bordering on making misleading statements to the public and it won't be long before the NMC are on his case. They've taken one nurse of the register for writing bilge.

 

[Cowabunga]

Oh look, the yellow pointer of John Campbell...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463493914816655361

I believe the words in broken English are a Google translation of what the Japanese Minister of Health said just before allowing its unrestricted use and doctor prescriptions about 10 days before really serious numbers of covid infections peaked and started declining rapidly. You cannot ignore that fact any more that the Japanese Minister could ignore low covid infection rates in countries where Ivermectin was commonly utilised.

 

[Cowabunga]

Is this doctor bloke still on the nursing register because I do believe he is bordering on making misleading statements to the public and it won't be long before the NMC are on his case. They've taken one nurse of the register for writing bilge.

He follows the facts without fear or prejudice. You could learn a massive amount from his ethical way of doing things. In fact you really do need to.

 

[milkloss]

Oh look, the yellow pointer of John Campbell...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463493914816655361

And fullfact on the same: https://fullfact.org/health/japan-not-using-ivermectin-instead-vaccines-treat-covid-19/

Only a half truth there. I believe japans government declared it acceptable to purchase or get a scrip to purchase ivermectin. No numbers are available to confirm the take up though.

 

[ollie989898]

The lady with the extensive twitter feed goes on to discuss all this at quite some length and spanning many pages. Worth a read for those so interested.

 

[ollie989898]

He follows the facts without fear or prejudice. You could learn a massive amount from his ethical way of doing things. In fact you really do need to.

It is not ethical to present information that you cannot substantial or which you know to be false. One nurse has been struck off for this already.

Anti-vax nurse struck off for claiming the pandemic is a hoax

She dubbed the current world health crisis a "scamdemic plandemic".

nursingnotes.co.uk

The Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) has made the decision to permanently remove a conspiracy theorist and anti-vaxxer Kate Shemirani from their register.

A registered nurse, non-medical prescriber and aesthetic practitioner at the time, Ms Shemirani developed a cult-like following over the past year due to her controversial views on vaccinations and lockdown.

She dubbed the current world health crisis a “scamdemic plandemic” in numerous YouTube videos before she was banned from the platform.

Ms Shemirani was originally suspended by the NMC in July 2020 in response to complaints that she was spreading misinformation about COVID-19 and about vaccines. During this hearing, which was uploaded to the internet, Ms Shermirani and her representative made several claims about the pandemic, 5G and Bill gates.

 

[farenheit]

I believe the words in broken English are a Google translation of what the Japanese Minister of Health said just before allowing its unrestricted use and doctor prescriptions about 10 days before really serious numbers of covid infections peaked and started declining rapidly. You cannot ignore that fact any more that the Japanese Minister could ignore low covid infection rates in countries where Ivermectin was commonly utilised.

It has not been approved for use in Japan. You are picking up rubbish you read on the same websites that all of your facebook and youtube buddies read.

Did Japan Halt COVID-19 Vax Rollout Due to Ivermectin Success?

Japan has been touted as a pandemic success story.

www.snopes.com

 

[Cowabunga]

Only a half truth there. I believe japans government declared it acceptable to purchase or get a scrip to purchase ivermectin. No numbers are available to confirm the take up though.

With the covid cases increasing as they were, I believe the take-up was relatively high over the following two to three weeks. I have yet to see figures confirming this and its probably difficult to do more than estimate, because much was sourced privately from India.

 

[Cowabunga]

It is not ethical to present information that you cannot substantial or which you know to be false. One nurse has been struck off for this already.

Anti-vax nurse struck off for claiming the pandemic is a hoax

She dubbed the current world health crisis a "scamdemic plandemic".

nursingnotes.co.uk

This has absolutely nothing to do with this topic of course and once again confirms that you are disconnected with the norms of logic.

 

[Cowabunga]

It has not been approved for use in Japan. You are picking up rubbish you read on the same websites that all of your facebook and youtube buddies read.

Did Japan Halt COVID-19 Vax Rollout Due to Ivermectin Success?

Japan has been touted as a pandemic success story.

www.snopes.com

I did not say it had been approved in Japan. It has not been formally approved as such. However it has been totally derestricted and made available to be prescribed by any doctor that wishes to do so and is available privately without prescription. That people [like you] cannot distinguish between the two is no longer a surprise to me.

 

[ollie989898]

For those who love videos.

 

[ollie989898]

And another. Nice lady.

 

[Cowabunga]

A very interesting video presentation of the type Ollie has ridiculed consistently.

I do not believe that Ollie has watched the video he posted, especially as he has repeatedly claimed that he never watches on principle.

3CL Protease inhibitor. Fact is that both Ivermectin and the Pfizer product are protease inhibitors and that is the Pfizer's mode of action. Dr Campbell never claimed that they were the same compound, only that they were both protease inhibitors and that this was their mode of action.

This chap does confirm that Ivermectin is "safe" with no such doubt that Ollie continually insinuates.

So far all he says is that there is a co-product to the Pfizer drug that makes it last longer [covailant bond].
NCATS… this man certainly believes in using 50 words where one would do. His emphasis on a single high throughput bulk test of multiple compounds and their curve is rather touching. Summary, no 'consistent' evidence of protease inhibition.

Computer simulations is mentioned. Yes Dr Campbell or someone mentioned this but the same method is used on the Pfizer product. At 39 minutes he mentions that a paragraph was left out but the same observation applies to the Pfizer . So if 'don't do' applies to Ivermectin it also applies to the same theoretical tests on the Pfizer. I think for most people it was fairly obvious that this was a computer simulation, which is commonly used to fish for information about compounds.
This chap says that the paper 'does not say' but completely ignores 'what it does say', which is rather odd, because what exactly is the point unless it actually says something.

He then goes on to confirm that a computer simulation says it works but he claims at far higher concentrations than the normal dose rate. About a thousand times higher. Lots of 'if it does' when results are positive but no such issue with claiming it doesn't.

I agree about the publisher not the authors at 1.02. Dr Campbell was wrong to emphasise the publisher I think, although publishers are often cited as endorsers in some medical publication contexts.

Then ''this is the first paper that he has got wrong''. It is a computational paper result of course. Yes he got it wrong and Remdesivir has the best binding agent but Ivermectin was a very close second in the table despite this chap's protestations that it somehow turned Dr Campnell's claims on its head. His claim at 1.10 is rather nonsense as far as point 6 goes. There is no dispute about the difference in price or the significance of this when it comes to sales, profits and incentives to prescribe or indeed not to prescribe, depending on whether clinicians or management pull the strings.

Oddly I recognised that these were all computational experiment papers and I'm sure Dr Campbell did also and he never claimed otherwise did he? I don't recall that being so.

Of course all this completely ignores the alternative hypothesis to Ivermectin to fully or partially explain the Japanese experience, of spectacular lowering of covid cases, which I have linked to in another later video. I'm sure all but Ollie will have seen these two alternative hypothesis which may have played role, either in total, or partly in some combination with others.

This chap assumes that the computer simulations that he decries are actually accurate in his summary, or a mixture of agreeing with some and not others.

This chap complains that Dr Campbell's undermines the Pfizer drug. It does no such thing of course, although Dr Campbell does claim a similar mode of action and perhaps a degree of efficacy that nobody has yet confirmed in practice. Of course nobody yet knows for certain whether the Pfizer product lives up to expectations [or Ivermectin] although there is less doubt about its safety than there is about the Molnupiravir from Merck. Neither of which seem to be destined for full and thorough testing before being given an 'Emergency Use License'.
Which is the most important point here. Nobody is willing to test one product at all, citing safety and efficacy issues, while demonising it from all angles, yet they actively promote patented expensive drugs which are only very selectively tested by the manufacturers themselves, just as they did with the vaccines that turned out to have a far higher incidence of adverse and serious effects than anticipated. They were basically lucky that they turned out to be, on balance, positive in their benefit to risk ratio for most demographics. They might not be so lucky next time with their cavalier avoidance of full safety testing.

 

[Cowabunga]

Goodness! I've converted Ollie to being a video fan at last.

 

[ollie989898]

Yeah sorry, I am studying some genetics at the moment, I haven't watched both videos in their entirety as yet, only a couple of short sections.

I am sure someone will watch them in their entirety if they are so interested. They don't really present any 'evidence' of anything - they are discussing inaccuracies in claims or otherwise made by third parties. I found it amusing that your youtube guy actually had Dr Susan Oliver on his channel a couple of times but can't now because she has gone and pointed out the guy is plain wrong in several cases.

Still, I guess he has gone this far down the rabbit hole with ivermectin and realised that is the internet equivalent of crack for the believers and so he is sort of obliged to keep smacking that pony because it is bringing him views. Not much different to big Pharma flogging out Remdesivir for the shilling factor, really.

And lastly, the mechanism of these antiviral compounds isn't that much of a mystery, or really up for discussion: as I keep saying, some of them have been around a fair while.

 

[Cowabunga]

Yeah sorry, I am studying some genetics at the moment, I haven't watched both videos in their entirety as yet, only a couple of short sections.

I am sure someone will watch them in their entirety if they are so interested.

I have watched it to the end and posted a few notes as I went. Very interesting but not as damning as the chap makes out. He could easily have made the same observations with 50% less words, but that's a minor issue.
The point being of course that some people look at all the evidence from all available sources in a dispassionate way. We do not selectively watch and select from only one point of view and fully recognise that things aren't all either black or white and that most things are shades of grey. Something you really should learn at a younger age.
Molnupiravir has certainly not been around a while and neither have RNA vaccines. I am more comfortable with the Pfizer drug than with the Merck Molnupiravir, because that class of drug if not that compound has indeed been around a while. However, both are new formulations and both really should be tested.
What gets me is not the politics or mechanics of the testing but that YOU use double standards so blatantly, insisting even yesterday that Ivermectin had not been safety tested for Covid treatment. Well no, not specifically for Covid but its had 40 years of use and has an exemplary safety record and even the chap in the video agreed and explained why it is so safe.