Lab Cock up or protein loss?

[warksfarmer]

Over 2 days of harvesting some Crusoe wheat I took a small sample from every single trailer tipped into the shed and filled four grain sampling bags. At the same time every load is weighed, moisture tested, bushel tested and temp tested. This amounts to around 500t of harvested crop.

One sample is sent to a merchants lab for test and the other is sent to the lab we routinely use. Both were for group 1 wheat tests.

The results came back as follows:

Lab 1 merchant
Moisture 14.0 bushel 78.3 hag 325 pro 14.17
Moisture 14.7 bushel 79.2 hag 376 pro 13.85

Lab 2 our normal lab
Moisture 14.16 bushel 79.5 hag 205 pro 14.17
Moisture 15.12 bushel 79.5 hag 380 pro 14.04

As you can see it's all very similar except lab 2 first hag for some reason. But the important thing is the protein which is virtually identical.

So the grain is cooled and it's been stirred 4 times. 3 loads get collected and delivered to a mill with proteins coming back at 12.8, 12.5 and 11.9. Thinking something wrong at the mill we send two more samples off the heap, one to lab 2 who tests it at 12.5 protein and one to another independent lab who tests it at 11.9 protein.

Further samples have now been taken and sent to lab 2, but anybody heard of proteins reducing in store? Because two labs at harvest separate from each other cocking up 4 samples between them on the same day for the same customer is a bit far fetched.

We and the merchant are a bit stumped with this.

 

[solo]

Late sprayed on urea which has come off in store? Would be very unlikely i think but could explain the reading difference.

Alternatively maybe the lab hygiene between samples was poor at harvest due to the rush of a lot of samples coming in all together. Daughter was sampling for a large company and the harvest spread was very intensive this year compared to last.

 

[Brisel]

I can understand Hagberg reducing but with drying & cooling the protein should be more concentrated with weight loss. @Woldgrain Storage @Derky @Jetemp may be able to comment, having commercial stores.

 

[warksfarmer]

Late sprayed on urea which has come off in store? Would be very unlikely i think but could explain the reading difference.

Alternatively maybe the lab hygiene between samples was poor at harvest due to the rush of a lot of samples coming in all together. Daughter was sampling for a large company and the harvest spread was very intensive this year compared to last.

I'd have to check but iirc N on this crop was 220kg in 3 splits and then 40kg spray. The date escapes me right now but I seem to recall us along with the agronomist, thinking at last we got the timing perfect.

 

[Jetemp]

Don't really know to be honest.

Are you on floor drying this? What temperature do you get up to?

James

 

[yellow belly]

logical reasons

1 sampling errors not very likely but possible as 2 separate labs were used errors in the lab are less likely but they both could have got sample mixed up
some companys keep all samples and can get them for retesting

2 the stirring action reduced the test result because the urea was on the grain but not as protein retesting the original sample for protein quality may be possible but as less says he got the spray timeing right but still possible

3 some other reason as yet unidentified

 

[Grains Guru]

I think I know the answer, but the title heading is wrong.

If you change it to 'Lab cock up or Protein loss or ADM mill?'

I can explain it.

 

[Clive]

Over 2 days of harvesting some Crusoe wheat I took a small sample from every single trailer tipped into the shed and filled four grain sampling bags. At the same time every load is weighed, moisture tested, bushel tested and temp tested. This amounts to around 500t of harvested crop.

One sample is sent to a merchants lab for test and the other is sent to the lab we routinely use. Both were for group 1 wheat tests.

The results came back as follows:

Lab 1 merchant
Moisture 14.0 bushel 78.3 hag 325 pro 14.17
Moisture 14.7 bushel 79.2 hag 376 pro 13.85

Lab 2 our normal lab
Moisture 14.16 bushel 79.5 hag 205 pro 14.17
Moisture 15.12 bushel 79.5 hag 380 pro 14.04

As you can see it's all very similar except lab 2 first hag for some reason. But the important thing is the protein which is virtually identical.

So the grain is cooled and it's been stirred 4 times. 3 loads get collected and delivered to a mill with proteins coming back at 12.8, 12.5 and 11.9. Thinking something wrong at the mill we send two more samples off the heap, one to lab 2 who tests it at 12.5 protein and one to another independent lab who tests it at 11.9 protein.

Further samples have now been taken and sent to lab 2, but anybody heard of proteins reducing in store? Because two labs at harvest separate from each other cocking up 4 samples between them on the same day for the same customer is a bit far fetched.

We and the merchant are a bit stumped with this.

bring a sample up and stick it through our Perten if you want Lee ? it's live network calibrated etc so should agree with the mill

 

[Lincsman]

Protein usually goes up when dried... no protein in water.

 

[Flat 10]

Take a sample to Clives then Lee and we might get nearer to an answer, seems pretty inexplicable as is.....

 

[Derky]

I think I could know the reason. Pm me the routine lab please, because if its the one I think it is they are not fit for purpose. Send me a sample if you want Lee and I can have a look. If you are running proteins on a Foss or Perten machine they can be different as some of the calibrations this time have not been spot on.

 

[Woldgrain Storage]

It does sound peculiar.

We record the protein on every load of wheat intake (almost 41,000mt this year) and segregate accordingly. We always seem to outload wheat with a protein which agrees with what went in the silo at harvest.

We don't do any stirring and wouldn't know which loads have had liquid fert through the growing period.

We would be happy to test a sample to form a consensus if you wanted to put one in the post. Both our Foss machines are on multiple ringcheck schemes.

 

[Fuzzy]

Over 2 days of harvesting some Crusoe wheat I took a small sample from every single trailer tipped into the shed and filled four grain sampling bags. At the same time every load is weighed, moisture tested, bushel tested and temp tested. This amounts to around 500t of harvested crop.

One sample is sent to a merchants lab for test and the other is sent to the lab we routinely use. Both were for group 1 wheat tests.

The results came back as follows:

Lab 1 merchant
Moisture 14.0 bushel 78.3 hag 325 pro 14.17
Moisture 14.7 bushel 79.2 hag 376 pro 13.85

Lab 2 our normal lab
Moisture 14.16 bushel 79.5 hag 205 pro 14.17
Moisture 15.12 bushel 79.5 hag 380 pro 14.04

As you can see it's all very similar except lab 2 first hag for some reason. But the important thing is the protein which is virtually identical.

So the grain is cooled and it's been stirred 4 times. 3 loads get collected and delivered to a mill with proteins coming back at 12.8, 12.5 and 11.9. Thinking something wrong at the mill we send two more samples off the heap, one to lab 2 who tests it at 12.5 protein and one to another independent lab who tests it at 11.9 protein.

Further samples have now been taken and sent to lab 2, but anybody heard of proteins reducing in store? Because two labs at harvest separate from each other cocking up 4 samples between them on the same day for the same customer is a bit far fetched.

We and the merchant are a bit stumped with this.

The labs should both have the original harvest samples, get them retested !!
Did you also retain original harvest samples for your records ?

 

[warksfarmer]

I think I could know the reason. Pm me the routine lab please, because if its the one I think it is they are not fit for purpose. Send me a sample if you want Lee and I can have a look. If you are running proteins on a Foss or Perten machine they can be different as some of the calibrations this time have not been spot on.

Pm me your address and I'll send you a sample.

 

[warksfarmer]

It does sound peculiar.

We record the protein on every load of wheat intake (almost 41,000mt this year) and segregate accordingly. We always seem to outload wheat with a protein which agrees with what went in the silo at harvest.

We don't do any stirring and wouldn't know which loads have had liquid fert through the growing period.

We would be happy to test a sample to form a consensus if you wanted to put one in the post. Both our Foss machines are on multiple ringcheck schemes.

If you pm the address and contact I'll send a sample over.

 

[warksfarmer]

bring a sample up and stick it through our Perten if you want Lee ? it's live network calibrated etc so should agree with the mill

I'll try and get across Thursday/Friday.

 

[Neddy flanders]

Lee. Get the original samples, or any others. Put them through a professional splitter.
Send half to a merchants lab and half to a mill intake lab. Plenty of mills will do this for you if you're nice to them and are prepared to wait while they have a few mins spare. Could be interesting.