Labour units per acre/animal/system.

[kiwi pom]

In another thread talk has moved to the number of labour units on cropping and dairy units, so I'm wondering what people think about it.
How many acres/animals per employee/owner/contractor for each type of farming bearing in mind contracting some things out is still hiring labour.
Is employing the minimum number of people even something to be proud of, or do some take pride in the number of families their land provides a living for?

Thoughts...

 

[rusty]

I have travelled around the mid west USA a few times looking at large dairy units. As a rule of thumb they would be around 1 labour unit per 100 milking cows if they contracted out all field work, heifer rearing, foot trimming and breeding. Those that did it all in house would be nearer 50 milkers per labour unit.

 

[kiwi pom]

I have travelled around the mid west USA a few times looking at large dairy units. As a rule of thumb they would be around 1 labour unit per 100 milking cows if they contracted out all field work, heifer rearing, foot trimming and breeding. Those that did it all in house would be nearer 50 milkers per labour unit.

Yes I agree, the big units aren't as efficient as you think, when everything is taken into account.
Here the number of employees on a dairy farm might be low but add in AI/vet help, contractors for field work and forage and the fact that the fert truck turns up when summoned, it adds up.
Then there's all the office work too.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Under ideal conditions (ring fenced block properly paddocked with lane ways and an efficient fixed handling system) with the correct breed (wool shedding maternals put to a maternal easy lambing tup) I reckon 4,000 ewes.

The limiting factor would be how many you could put through the handling system in a day. That would dictate mob size. Then mob size x number of mobs would give you total flock number.

An efficient handling set up and good team of dogs should allow 1000 ewes + followers to be handled in a day. So 4 mobs would allow the entire flock to be handled in a week.

Anyone else got any ideas?

 

[Al R]

Under ideal conditions (ring fenced block properly paddocked with lane ways and an efficient fixed handling system) with the correct breed (wool shedding maternals put to a maternal easy lambing tup) I reckon 4,000 ewes.

The limiting factor would be how many you could put through the handling system in a day. That would dictate mob size. Then mob size x number of mobs would give you total flock number.

An efficient handling set up and good team of dogs should allow 1000 ewes + followers to be handled in a day. So 4 mobs would allow the entire flock to be handled in a week.

Anyone else got any ideas?

Plus a life and time with family.
I’m at 1500 and have some help but also have other things going on, apart from lambing and pre lambing it’s rare I do more than 2-3 hours on a Saturday and Sunday so I can spend it with the family. Field sizes of sub 4 acre make it harder. Running smaller groups means less stress/competition and more lambs fattened quicker.

 

[snarling bee]

Arable boys are now at 1 man per 1000 acres including full time manager, plus casual help in the summer.

 

[Bury the Trash]

if there's part time help at all its not one man then is it.... what bs

 

[unlacedgecko]

Plus a life and time with family.
I’m at 1500 and have some help but also have other things going on, apart from lambing and pre lambing it’s rare I do more than 2-3 hours on a Saturday and Sunday so I can spend it with the family. Field sizes of sub 4 acre make it harder. Running smaller groups means less stress/competition and more lambs fattened quicker.

Field sizes like that should make it easier. Apart from lambing (21 days) have everything in 1 mob and away you go.

 

[d-wales]

Under ideal conditions (ring fenced block properly paddocked with lane ways and an efficient fixed handling system) with the correct breed (wool shedding maternals put to a maternal easy lambing tup) I reckon 4,000 ewes.

The limiting factor would be how many you could put through the handling system in a day. That would dictate mob size. Then mob size x number of mobs would give you total flock number.

An efficient handling set up and good team of dogs should allow 1000 ewes + followers to be handled in a day. So 4 mobs would allow the entire flock to be handled in a week.

Anyone else got any ideas?

I agree.

Maybe a person to help run sheep through the race once every 2 weeks, when selecting lambs.

Apart from that, it's just moving sheep

 

[kiwi pom]

Arable boys are now at 1 man per 1000 acres including full time manager, plus casual help in the summer.

I think that's sad. I understand it's had to be that way but all that productive ground growing feed wheat and whatever break crop is easy and pays. Employing next to no one with a few big landowners getting a large subsidy for doing a few months work a year. Meanwhile the UK imports a large percentage of it's food.
Something went very wrong somewhere.

 

[Bramble]

Arable boys are now at 1 man per 1000 acres including full time manager, plus casual help in the summer.

So 2.5 people to run the place for the year, that’s 1 person for 400 acres.

I’m at probably 5.5 people (4 full time plus reliefs/casuals) for 700 acres (220 dairy cows, 140 followers, 300 acres arable, everything done in house except hedgecutting and PD’s/vet work)

 

[beltbreaker]

Reckon I must be quite efficient (daft) 400 acres arable, 100 suckled cows and followers finished, 250 ewes lambs finished on 700 acres some 15 miles away. Help for lambing and grain carting handling large cattle batches. Contractors do silage, straw bailing, lime, muck and drainage and sos stuff. So in reality extra labour in manhours is 50 - 60 days.

However family do a fair bit and I am happy to pay them to help out under their terms. I like to think I make a reasonable job of it all. Paperwork is my biggest challenge.

Employed staff generally differ from owners in that you shouldn't expect a staff member to do as many hours. However being a busy fool of an employer is daft to as I well know striking the balance seems to get harder as I get older and especially with Covid I am happier on farm.

Specialisation certainly makes life easier, 1000 acres/man arable 250 sucklers per man 1000 finishers 2k ewes all doable but attention to detail suffers and getting off farm helps to focus the mind and plan.

 

[Northern territory]

I know of a contract farming operation round here will be over 3000 acres with one manager employed and everyone else self employed. To me that doesn’t seem right. The lads who they get are as skilled as any so are lucky.

 

[ajd132]

I know of a contract farming operation round here will be over 3000 acres with one manager employed and everyone else self employed. To me that doesn’t seem right. The lads who they get are as skilled as any so are lucky.

We are like that. Me, dad and self employed person for feb -nov and a couple of locals who come in at peak times (one with his own tractor). It works really well at the moment but I am very aware it is not a long term solution. I am abit of a jack of all trades at the moment and if I broke a leg we would be exposed.

 

[Northern territory]

We are like that. Me, dad and self employed person for feb -nov and a couple of locals who come in at peak times (one with his own tractor). It works really well at the moment but I am very aware it is not a long term solution. I am abit of a jack of all trades at the moment and if I broke a leg we would be exposed.

Yes I can see that. It suits both parties in this case and seems the way it is going. Just a shame farms can’t employ people and still make a good living anymore.

 

[ajd132]

Yes I can see that. It suits both parties in this case and seems the way it is going. Just a shame farms can’t employ people and still make a good living anymore.

We factor in a good wage for me and dad. It’s not that we couldn’t afford it, it’s more at the moment dad wants to work and obviously so do I, the view is we may aswell do more of if ourselves and have the money ourselves! We do our own agronomy aswell which is another chunk saved.
We do share a drill with another farm so we have abit of over lap with those guys now which is a help.
it is sad though when you think of how many people would have lives off the farms that we do. It was probably hundreds 100 years ago

 

[Northern territory]

We factor in a good wage for me and dad. It’s not that we couldn’t afford it, it’s more at the moment dad wants to work and obviously so do I, the view is we may aswell do more of if ourselves and have the money ourselves! We do our own agronomy aswell which is another chunk saved.
We do share a drill with another farm so we have abit of over lap with those guys now which is a help.
it is sad though when you think of how many people would have lives off the farms that we do. It was probably hundreds 100 years ago

That’s my point really. It’s further reaching in a local social way. Everyone does what they need to, to run a business.

 

[delilah]

I think about this quite a bit (in a general industry way, not related to our setup, we are all voluntary labour lol) and my thoughts keep coming back to the concept of 'critical mass'.
It's all very well for an industry as a whole to talk about how efficient it is in terms of productivity per labour unit. Until you are out there one night and need a hand calving a cow, or fixiing a piece of kit, or whatever, and you think to yourself "who is there, in this parish, under the age of 40, who can do this ?".
It is my belief that we are sleep walking into this lack of critical mass, at it worries me.

 

[kiwi pom]

We are like that. Me, dad and self employed person for feb -nov and a couple of locals who come in at peak times (one with his own tractor). It works really well at the moment but I am very aware it is not a long term solution. I am abit of a jack of all trades at the moment and if I broke a leg we would be exposed.

Can I ask, what does the self employed person do for the other few months?
Do you save much by not having them full time?
Do they prefer being self employed?

 

[Yale]

Under ideal conditions (ring fenced block properly paddocked with lane ways and an efficient fixed handling system) with the correct breed (wool shedding maternals put to a maternal easy lambing tup) I reckon 4,000 ewes.

The limiting factor would be how many you could put through the handling system in a day. That would dictate mob size. Then mob size x number of mobs would give you total flock number.

An efficient handling set up and good team of dogs should allow 1000 ewes + followers to be handled in a day. So 4 mobs would allow the entire flock to be handled in a week.

Anyone else got any ideas?

Ring fenced with roadways would be heaven.

I could keep double like that however having the farm intersected by roads,a village and a reasonable amount of human population restricts and makes jobs harder.

I wouldn’t like to keep any more!