Lambing 8 Week Weights without birth weights

[gb627]

I lamb outside and am considering 8 week weights and weaning weights to aid identifying poor performers.

I'm not planning on tagging or weighing at birth and so I'm wondering if I just take 8 week and weaning weights I'll have enough info for identifying poor performers? I'll tag at 8 weeks.

Because I won't have info on if the lamb was a heavy single or one of twins or parentage will this skew the performance towards singles?

 

[yellowbelly]

Do you ring tails and balls soon after birth?

If so, spray a dot on all singles - then you'll know.

 

[sheepdogtrail]

Not if you factor that in to your calculations.

Don't forget to use a oil based paint if dotting. It's the only thing that may survive 8 weeks in the rain.

 

[neilo]

I lamb outside and am considering 8 week weights and weaning weights to aid identifying poor performers.

I'm not planning on tagging or weighing at birth and so I'm wondering if I just take 8 week and weaning weights I'll have enough info for identifying poor performers? I'll tag at 8 weeks.

Because I won't have info on if the lamb was a heavy single or one of twins or parentage will this skew the performance towards singles?

You’re 8 week weights will mean nothing without a date of birth, assuming lambing is spread over three weeks.
Similar with no birth weights recorded, unless you can identify those lambs born particularly big and small and exclude them.

 

[Six Dogs]

I lamb outside and am considering 8 week weights and weaning weights to aid identifying poor performers.

I'm not planning on tagging or weighing at birth and so I'm wondering if I just take 8 week and weaning weights I'll have enough info for identifying poor performers? I'll tag at 8 weeks.

Because I won't have info on if the lamb was a heavy single or one of twins or parentage will this skew the performance towards singles?

If you are looking to improve the performance of your ewe flock then surely you will have to link lambs to ewes
Yes it’s tedious but only way to make significant gains in a closed flock

 

[M-J-G]

You’re 8 week weights will mean nothing without a date of birth, assuming lambing is spread over three weeks.
Similar with no birth weights recorded, unless you can identify those lambs born particularly big and small and exclude them.

I'd agree to a point, but overall performance (particularly in the ewes) will still be apparent as long as singles are identified.

 

[ringi]

I can't see 8 week weights or weaning weights being useful unless you can separate singles from twins.

Not knowing week of birth will result in selecting lambs from the ewes that got pregnant at the start of topping. This will tend to exclude lambs from ewes who did not take in 1st cycle, but also unnecessary exclude lambs from ewes that took at end of 1st cycle.

But if a teaser is used could get most lambing over one or two weeks.

 

[M-J-G]

I can't see 8 week weights or weaning weights being useful unless you can separate singles from twins.

Not knowing week of birth will result in selecting lambs from the ewes that got pregnant at the start of topping. This will tend to exclude lambs from ewes who did not take in 1st cycle, but also unnecessary exclude lambs from ewes that took at end of 1st cycle.

But if a teaser is used could get most lambing over one or two weeks.

Shortening to less than a cycle is very difficult.

Do you want to select from ewes that aren't covered in the first cycle, I don't select any ewe lambs as replacements that aren't 45kg in the first 2 draws of lambs.

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

Shortening to less than a cycle is very difficult.

Do you want to select from ewes that aren't covered in the first cycle, I don't select any ewe lambs as replacements that aren't 45kg in the first 2 draws of lambs.

Do you identify singles as they will usually be the heaviest and you may not want to keep selecting replacements from singles?

 

[M-J-G]

Do you identify singles as they will usually be the heaviest and you may not want to keep selecting replacements from singles?

I tag trouble free multiples at birth and select from there, I don't keep any single ewe lambs

 

[puppet]

I lamb outside and am considering 8 week weights and weaning weights to aid identifying poor performers.

I'm not planning on tagging or weighing at birth and so I'm wondering if I just take 8 week and weaning weights I'll have enough info for identifying poor performers? I'll tag at 8 weeks.

Because I won't have info on if the lamb was a heavy single or one of twins or parentage will this skew the performance towards singles?

We lamb singles in a different field and keep separate as first to go fat. Draw replacement from twins. Let first lot of biggest ewe lambs go fat as don't want lots of Texel x ewes at 80kg.

 

[ringi]

Let first lot of biggest ewe lambs go fat as don't want lots of Texel x ewes at 80kg.

Would it not be better to select gast growing replacements from the smaller ewes rather then selecting slower growing replacements?

 

[tepapa]

I think recording birth date and dam is one of the key measurements for recording. It allows you you to trace family lines, growth and problems. Not so easy done at a busy lambing but worth the effort if possible.

 

[M-J-G]

Would it not be better to select gast growing replacements from the smaller ewes rather then selecting slower growing replacements?

I would say so, keep mature weights down whilst aiming for fast growth to slaughter weight, that's what I'm trying to do.

 

[puppet]

Would it not be better to select gast growing replacements from the smaller ewes rather then selecting slower growing replacements?

Probably but that would involve more tagging and technology than we have just now. Currently would select the best ewe lambs when weaning in July on the basis they will bi the top quarter. Go to tup as hoggs.

 

[ringi]

Probably but that would involve more tagging and technology than we have just now. Currently would select the best ewe lambs when weaning in July on the basis they will bi the top quarter. Go to tup as hoggs.

May only need two lambing fields of twins with marking the lambs from the twin fields that had "best" ewes.

 

[gatepost]

Quite difficult to make accurate assessments ''in the field'' the recording systems ie Signet, use a horse race type weighting , based on single/twin, sex and age of dam, and that's before you decide what constitutes ''best performance, there is often a trade off between physical growth mature wt and early maturity and killing out %, if you kill off your first draw twins, then you are getting rid of lambs out of best milking ewes, but also probably the middle age ewes.

 

[M-J-G]

Quite difficult to make accurate assessments ''in the field'' the recording systems ie Signet, use a horse race type weighting , based on single/twin, sex and age of dam, and that's before you decide what constitutes ''best performance, there is often a trade off between physical growth mature wt and early maturity and killing out %, if you kill off your first draw twins, then you are getting rid of lambs out of best milking ewes, but also probably the middle age ewes.

I agree with most of this, but things have to be apparent in the field at some point, otherwise why do anything.
It's like those who oppose comparing rams in a commercial situation because of a lack of data on the dam's side, yet are happy to tell folks that the lambs from ram A is better than B because he has a higher index without knowing the data of the dams.
If it's that much better, it should be obvious.

For me lambs gone fast is king, I don't want anything left by tupping time if possible, apart from the odd scrappy thing. So a ewe that lambs early and rears two lambs fast is what it's all about, so a set of twins that are smaller because they were born in the 2nd cycle is no excuse, it's a black mark against that ewe regardless, this is maybe rather blunt for some but things are only as complicated as you let it be.
lambs thst are singles and from hoggs are exceptions, all else is up for equal scrutiny in my book, and rearing 2 singles in a row is a culling offence now.

I'm the same with the cows, which ever bring in the most money are the best, if 2 cows calve a month apart and their calves are the same money at 8 months old I'm happy with both, they were both on the farm for 365 days, the later calving cow still had to be kept so she has to bring in money too.

I'm looking forward to folks attempts to refine my blunt process of elimination.

 

[ringi]

Quite difficult to make accurate assessments ''in the field'' the recording systems ie Signet

The maths in Signet type systems depends on being able to link all the lambs to their fathers as well as mothers.

It's like those who oppose comparing rams in a commercial situation because of a lack of data on the dam's side

There is a big difference between compering within a single management group (flock) then comparing rams by eye at a market when the rams have had different feeding.

yet are happy to tell folks that the lambs from ram A is better than B because he has a higher index wit

The only real issue I have with signet indexes is they can't tell you if the resulting replacements ewes will cope with over wintering on your farm, as a ewe with a better 8 week ebv may have it at the cost of needing more winter feed due to not recovering body fat after giving lots of energy to her lambs.

I'm looking forward to folks attempts to refine my blunt process of elimination.

Great for a fully closed flock/herd, but does not premit compared rams/bulls from different farms. Comparing by eye at a livestock market is little better then a random number generator, hence I tend to think best to use own rams/bulls unless buying based on signet data or directly from a farm (with the same system as you) you fully trust to have culled hard.

 

[puppet]

Would it not be better to select gast growing replacements from the smaller ewes rather then selecting slower growing replacements?

I agree that those early ewe lambs will be fast growing but it helps cash flow to get them away in early July. On the other hand we made £105/head in September, £130 in January and £170 last week for fat lambs. So in terms of return the last 100 lambs made the best margin by far. Off grass with around £4 of feed each. In effect the same as a 25% increase in lambing % and good for winter cash flow.