Land Value Taxation

[essexpete]

well planning system determines supply of 'housing land'....so that arguement is void

as to lvt.....might not be to bad if sensible.....no taxation should be punitive though

The current planning system with the obsolete green belt policy does actually benefit a very small minority. Historically green belt release, which is where much of UK development takes place, tends to be secured by large land owners and property developers.

 

[Goweresque]

Even 1% property tax would in theory raise something like £120 billion a year ( if I have my numbers right, there may be some double counting in there) . Can you imagine the spending spree ministers could have!

Do you not think that if there was the spare capacity to increase taxes by that amount that someone wouldn't have done so already? £120bn is the same amount of money as half the entire income tax revenue (currently about £260bn/yr). If LVT revenue is in addition to existing taxes where exactly is it coming from, given that every Chancellor for the last 10 years has struggled to bring in extra tax revenue despite trying higher tax rates on the wealthy (the 50% top tax rate brought in no extra revenue for example)?

It would also be political dynamite - a 1% tax on property values would mean the average person (or family) paid more than £2k extra in tax, just like that. Everyone who owns their own house, £2k please. Tenants would probably end up paying it too, as landlords bumped the rent to pay the tax, so tenants would pay the tax by proxy.

This is the reality of increasing taxation in a country such as the UK - we are heavily taxed already, there are no low hanging fruits any more to raise large amounts of revenue easily. Raising significantly more revenue involves taxing the rank and file of the population. Imagining that there is this mythical beast 'the rich' who will pay for everything is pure fantasy. If the public want huge amounts more of public spending, the public are going to have to pay for it, simple as that.

 

[Fallowfield]

' a 1% tax on property values would mean the average person (or family) paid more than £2k extra in tax, just like that. '

Is that what is being proposed, because that isn't how land value tax works?

 

[capfits]

https://www.step.org/news/nearly-100000-properties-england-and-wales-owned-foreign-entities
I wonder how many of these are paying meaningful taxes to this country or the local community?
It could be readily argued that these properties are being supported in terms of policing and fire services for example by those in the community.
If there were a LVT then they should not be able to dodge the tax.
Some maybe surprised to know if you are a Danish land owner with landlin UK and maybe liable for very littleUK tax but you are liable to Danish authorities for your UK assets. Makes sense?

Do you not think that if there was the spare capacity to increase taxes by that amount that someone wouldn't have done so already? £120bn is the same amount of money as half the entire income tax revenue (currently about £260bn/yr). If LVT revenue is in addition to existing taxes where exactly is it coming from, given that every Chancellor for the last 10 years has struggled to bring in extra tax revenue despite trying higher tax rates on the wealthy (the 50% top tax rate brought in no extra revenue for example)?

It would also be political dynamite - a 1% tax on property values would mean the average person (or family) paid more than £2k extra in tax, just like that. Everyone who owns their own house, £2k please. Tenants would probably end up paying it too, as landlords bumped the rent to pay the tax, so tenants would pay the tax by proxy.

This is the reality of increasing taxation in a country such as the UK - we are heavily taxed already, there are no low hanging fruits any more to raise large amounts of revenue easily. Raising significantly more revenue involves taxing the rank and file of the population. Imagining that there is this mythical beast 'the rich' who will pay for everything is pure fantasy. If the public want huge amounts more of public spending, the public are going to have to pay for it, simple as that.

Heavily taxed? But yet we spend more than coming in and and the country as capital asset is wealthier?
Personally I think a logical conclusion is actually a wealth tax as in Denmark.

 

[Exfarmer]

Do you not think that if there was the spare capacity to increase taxes by that amount that someone wouldn't have done so already? £120bn is the same amount of money as half the entire income tax revenue (currently about £260bn/yr). If LVT revenue is in addition to existing taxes where exactly is it coming from, given that every Chancellor for the last 10 years has struggled to bring in extra tax revenue despite trying higher tax rates on the wealthy (the 50% top tax rate brought in no extra revenue for example)?

It would also be political dynamite - a 1% tax on property values would mean the average person (or family) paid more than £2k extra in tax, just like that. Everyone who owns their own house, £2k please. Tenants would probably end up paying it too, as landlords bumped the rent to pay the tax, so tenants would pay the tax by proxy.

This is the reality of increasing taxation in a country such as the UK - we are heavily taxed already, there are no low hanging fruits any more to raise large amounts of revenue easily. Raising significantly more revenue involves taxing the rank and file of the population. Imagining that there is this mythical beast 'the rich' who will pay for everything is pure fantasy. If the public want huge amounts more of public spending, the public are going to have to pay for it, simple as that.

It was tried but chucked out by Maggie before it hadtime to get going.
if you looked at my post , the bulk would be raised on future sales so no direct payment. Other countries though do raise substantial sums in this way, after all it is closely connected to rates and we are fortunate not to have these on farmland. The French certainly do.

 

[Yale]

The politics of envy. What next window tax ?

Bifold door tax sweetie....

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

Don't forget that a LVT would be in addition to the Labour-supported policy of any subsidies to farmers effectively being a purchase installment.

 

[Still Farming]

It was tried but chucked out by Maggie before it hadtime to get going.
if you looked at my post , the bulk would be raised on future sales so no direct payment. Other countries though do raise substantial sums in this way, after all it is closely connected to rates and we are fortunate not to have these on farmland. The French certainly do.

Poll Tax -was fairer but wasters about and could'nt get money off them.
The "fixed"abode and Genuine had to pay as "tied", to property etc.

 

[Still Farming]

Everyone Pays to the hilt Taxes.
Directly or indirectly.
Even Non Tax payers.
Council Tax,Holiday tax,food tax,car tax,sugar tax,the list is endless ???

 

[texas pete]

Extra ways to raise revenue.....

WhatsApp tax
Snapchat tax
Facebook tax
Pointless trips to shopping centres to buy more crap you want, but don't need tax
Forum posting tax
Thought tax...…..

Here's a thought....try being a little more economical with the vast sums already raised....

It'll never catch on.

 

[Goweresque]

' a 1% tax on property values would mean the average person (or family) paid more than £2k extra in tax, just like that. '

Is that what is being proposed, because that isn't how land value tax works?

There are all sorts of types of land value tax, the exact type that might be introduced is entirely unknown. The point is that if you want to raise the sorts of sums mentioned (£120bn) then you don't get that from taxing farmers. As I pointed out earlier the entire amount of agricultural land in the UK is not worth more than about £430bn at absolute tops, so there's no way that you can tax something of that value and get an annual revenue of around 30%. Farming is what, a couple of % of GDP. Ergo you're only going to be able to raise a couple of % of any increase in taxes from farming.

If you want significant amounts of revenue you're going to have to tax the average man in the street to get it. There are about 27m households in the UK, to raise £120bn/yr in tax revenue, thats an average of about £4.5k extra tax per household. Thats the reality - however you calculate how the bill is arrived at, thats the sum per household needed to get that revenue.

 

[Roger Perry]

Property tax is the norm in U.S.
It works on a county by county basis and broadly the amount levied depends on several factors one of which is the actual productivity of the land, the money raised locally is spent for most part locally so there is accountability.
Same way with residential/commercial properties, every couple of yrs you receive a notification from the county assessor informing you of any changes in valuation.........these can be upward but also downward, if you think these are unreasonable I have the right as a taxpayer to drive over to the courthouse in my county (Rio Grande county) and present my objections to the county assessor (nice gal) and if your argument is a good one you will be listened to and with a bit of luck maybe there will not be an increase.........if farm commodity prices remain depressed for any length of time this will also be a factor in holding land tax in check.

If land tax comes to UK its important to ensure that money raised locally is spent locally, you must have accountability.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

If the “problem” is that too much of the wealth of land is held by too few, how does a land tax help?
Is it really going to bother my neighbour on one side, the Duke of Northumberland, currently making squillions enlarging every town and village around about, or perhaps it will bother my new neighbour on the other side; the founder of Persimmon homes (who currently seems to be investing in farmland).
Or does it bother me; 3rd gen owner occupier, recently paid off the mortgage taken out by my grandad?
I can only think it will squeeze out the smaller players (making tenanted farms unviable also), leaving control of greater areas of land in the hands of even fewer people.

 

[Roger Perry]

I guess we are at cross purposes maybe............you are somehow talking about a "wealth" one time tax..? whereas I am banging on about a property tax, an annual giveaway.

 

[Still Farming]

The New Labour Candidates at the Welsh Assemby or Senedd are in favour of it?
Tax if you sell,Taxed if do not sell ???

 

[Still Farming]

Extra ways to raise revenue.....

WhatsApp tax
Snapchat tax
Facebook tax
Pointless trips to shopping centres to buy more crap you want, but don't need tax
Forum posting tax
Thought tax...…..

Here's a thought....try being a little more economical with the vast sums already raised....

It'll never catch on.

You missed"breathing" fresh air tax ?

 

[slackjawedyokel]

If you take a walk I’ll tax your feet...

 

[Goweresque]

If you take a walk I’ll tax your feet...

..................Taxman!!!!