Latitude Seed dressing

[farmerfred86]

I'm reluctantly growing second wheats again this autumn.
I test seed and try to avoid fungicidal seed dressings where possible. I was horrified to see the price of latitude but I'm not sure if I should really be using it? It would seem in a no-till situation and very early October drilling its probably a good idea?

 

[Farmer Roy]

I haven’t used any seed dressing in any farm saved seed for years


I try to avoid dressings as I’m concerned about what they do to the beneficial soil biology

 

[SilliamWhale]

No. Don't bother.

Take all in no til second wheats is less of an issue anyway

Drill a bit later if you can

 

[farmerfred86]

I haven’t used any seed dressing in any farm saved seed for years


I try to avoid dressings as I’m concerned about what they do to the beneficial soil biology

same here, rarely used them now unless testing shows its needed.

No. Don't bother.

Take all in no til second wheats is less of an issue anyway

Drill a bit later if you can

Yes later drilling would help but then no-till usually compromised.

Sounds like its not worth the extortionate cost.

 

[David.]

Just for balance, I'll take the contrary view.
I have been using it on second wheats for some time, I figure the per ha cost of it is only a minute portion of the total cost of growing wheat.
I think I have been getting fewer take all symptoms in second wheats as a result.
Everything is insurance really..

 

[Timbo1080]

I'm reluctantly growing second wheats again this autumn.
I test seed and try to avoid fungicidal seed dressings where possible. I was horrified to see the price of latitude but I'm not sure if I should really be using it? It would seem in a no-till situation and very early October drilling its probably a good idea?

My Father would have loved to have witnessed this, but 8 years ago i decided to test the hyposthesis that zero til negated the issue of take all (We would historically never grow second wheats, in at least 25 years prior of 'Scratch Til'). We have one field, varying from what i consider 'light', to what would be considered 'heavy' - 45-58% Clay. Grew a fantastic first wheat, and pretty much just continued stuffing in Winter Wheat. Not an inkling of Take All.

Last autumn, we had cause to cultivate the field - Moling made it too rough - So out came the discs. What a disaster......Nearly a write off due to take all.

barsteward cultivations. Latitude is warranted where cultivation takes place.

 

[BRBX]

Had some skyfall dressed a while back when that ran out it came off the heap and got away better and couldn't see any difference after

 

[farmerfred86]

My Father would have loved to have witnessed this, but 8 years ago i decided to test the hyposthesis that zero til negated the issue of take all (We would historically never grow second wheats, in at least 25 years prior of 'Scratch Til'). We have one field, varying from what i consider 'light', to what would be considered 'heavy' - 45-58% Clay. Grew a fantastic first wheat, and pretty much just continued stuffing in Winter Wheat. Not an inkling of Take All.

Last autumn, we had cause to cultivate the field - Moling made it too rough - So out came the discs. What a disaster......Nearly a write off due to take all.

barsteward cultivations. Latitude is warranted where cultivation takes place.

Interesting as a lot of plough based systems do use latitude as a necessity...

 

[4course]

rotation .... rotation eliminates the need for many chem solutions but then im old and old fashioned in a way, having been through the barley baron years ,continuous wheat etc oh and several variations of non plough which explains my monicker. Interestingly and im not trying to brag not my style but we have no take all as yet nor blackgrass but there again ive never been able to claim one off 12t/ha ww ho ho

 

[Vader]

rotation .... rotation eliminates the need for many chem solutions but then im old and old fashioned in a way, having been through the barley baron years ,continuous wheat etc oh and several variations of non plough which explains my monicker. Interestingly and im not trying to brag not my style but we have no take all as yet nor blackgrass but there again ive never been able to claim one off 12t/ha ww ho ho

Never had black grass or rye grass here all the years we ploughed.
Others on min cultivating near by have them.

 

[ollie989898]

My Father would have loved to have witnessed this, but 8 years ago i decided to test the hyposthesis that zero til negated the issue of take all (We would historically never grow second wheats, in at least 25 years prior of 'Scratch Til'). We have one field, varying from what i consider 'light', to what would be considered 'heavy' - 45-58% Clay. Grew a fantastic first wheat, and pretty much just continued stuffing in Winter Wheat. Not an inkling of Take All.

Last autumn, we had cause to cultivate the field - Moling made it too rough - So out came the discs. What a disaster......Nearly a write off due to take all.

barsteward cultivations. Latitude is warranted where cultivation takes place.

Warm autumn meant you probably sowed into warm soil would have been my first guess. Throw in a hot summer and the crop had plenty on it's plate.

 

[ollie989898]

Never had black grass or rye grass here all the years we ploughed.
Others on min cultivating near by have them.

Yeap, min-till caused the present grass weed situation. Direct drilling caused the exact same thing in the 80's.

Min-till was done because wheat was £60/tonne. Fortunately Atlantis (and IPU/CTU) still worked.

The farms that have always ploughed generally have less brome and blackgrass, in my experience. I think wider rotations is also a bigger factor for many.

 

[Grass And Grain]

My Father would have loved to have witnessed this, but 8 years ago i decided to test the hyposthesis that zero til negated the issue of take all (We would historically never grow second wheats, in at least 25 years prior of 'Scratch Til'). We have one field, varying from what i consider 'light', to what would be considered 'heavy' - 45-58% Clay. Grew a fantastic first wheat, and pretty much just continued stuffing in Winter Wheat. Not an inkling of Take All.

Last autumn, we had cause to cultivate the field - Moling made it too rough - So out came the discs. What a disaster......Nearly a write off due to take all.

barsteward cultivations. Latitude is warranted where cultivation takes place.

Interesting, wonder why the zero till appears to be better for take all. Mycorrhizal fungi competing with take all? Easier for wheat plant to get the nutrients it needs?

 

[Bogweevil]

My Father would have loved to have witnessed this, but 8 years ago i decided to test the hyposthesis that zero til negated the issue of take all (We would historically never grow second wheats, in at least 25 years prior of 'Scratch Til'). We have one field, varying from what i consider 'light', to what would be considered 'heavy' - 45-58% Clay. Grew a fantastic first wheat, and pretty much just continued stuffing in Winter Wheat. Not an inkling of Take All.

Last autumn, we had cause to cultivate the field - Moling made it too rough - So out came the discs. What a disaster......Nearly a write off due to take all.

barsteward cultivations. Latitude is warranted where cultivation takes place.

Fine example of suppressive field perhaps where soil biology counters take-all but take-all released from inhibition after soil biology disrupted by tillage. Thanks for sharing.

Will you now go back to continuous wheat and hope suppressive conditions occur again?

More on take-all decline here https://ahdb.org.uk/knowledge-library/take-all-decline-and-cereal-disease-management

 

[Timbo1080]

Interesting, wonder why the zero till appears to be better for take all. Mycorrhizal fungi competing with take all? Easier for wheat plant to get the nutrients it needs?

Fine example of suppressive field perhaps where soil biology counters take-all but take-all released from inhibition after soil biology disrupted by tillage. Thanks for sharing.

Will you now go back to continuous wheat and hope suppressive conditions occur again?

More on take-all decline here https://ahdb.org.uk/knowledge-library/take-all-decline-and-cereal-disease-management

I understand that Take All is ever present in the soil and particularly in pockets of varying Take All density (So effectively, while there may appear to be no Take All in a field, there are always some plants affected, but that competitive fungi keep it supressed at the field scale, so that its not really noticeable). I feel that the cultivations spread that took place, spread the Take All across the field, and also resulted in a generous blocky/knobble/tilth that will have favoured the pathogenic, and hindered the non-pathogenic fungi. I think that this type of surface will have helped propogate the Take All too, especially given the warm and wet weather. It may well also have resulted in a reduction in the ability for the Wheat to take up nutrients, particularly Manganese. It was certainly the only field that I couldn't walk across without getting soil blathered up my boots and legs.

This field will got to Rape now - I think i'm done with the experiment, and happy that if i wanted to grow continuous Wheats, i could without the worry of Take All.

 

[ajd132]

We have grown a lot of second and third wheat without latitude over the last 5 or 6 years.

 

[Gong Farmer]

Interesting, wonder why the zero till appears to be better for take all. Mycorrhizal fungi competing with take all? Easier for wheat plant to get the nutrients it needs?

Take all thrives in well-aerated soil, so on light soils in particular heavy cultivations or ploughing can make it worse. Often seen in bands in second wheats where chaff trials were left by the combine (springy, loose soil). Consolidated soil, but not compacted such as rooting is inhibited, is best.

In the old days heavy manuring helped, the CO2 produced by the organic matter made the soil almost anaerobic.

 

[ollie989898]

Take all thrives in well-aerated soil, so on light soils in particular heavy cultivations or ploughing can make it worse. Often seen in bands in second wheats where chaff trials were left by the combine (springy, loose soil). Consolidated soil, but not compacted such as rooting is inhibited, is best.

In the old days heavy manuring helped, the CO2 produced by the organic matter made the soil almost anaerobic.

I used to put modest amounts of routine foliar phosphate into the autumn manganese and BYDV treatments for second wheats (used to to it a bit for winter barley as well) . I believe that any factor that improves root health is advantageous for resisting take-all. Manures or slurries, both supplying some P and K along with good seed:soil contact must surely help with this.