Life planning: starting a new small farm business

[BertieT]

Good evening

I have been thinking about it for quite a while before posting, but, eventually, I think the time has come.
Be aware: maybe it is not the first port you read about this topic, but all your comments will be absolutely welcome.
I am a young professional, with a permanent job position in the South West and, in my future (3-5 yrs), I would like to quit my job and move to the countryside.

Actual situation:
Age: 30-35 yrs; savings: enough but not enough to afford a piece of land myself; private tenant; experience in management: good; previous experience in country/farm life: good, but not as a profession; keen to biological/physics and chemistry sciences.

Goals:
Quitting a stressful job; living and working surrounded by the nature; avoid bankruptcy; affording/building a normal house to live in.

Plan:

1- saving in order to increase the amount of non-loan funds and reduce further the loan/monthly repayment/expenses

2- get a loan/business mortgage
Question: I am not actually sure which one is what I am looking for, nor where I can find enough information. Any idea?

3- applying for the government project about farming, which means buying a piece of land (less than 10 acres, I do not think I could be able to afford more), starting a agricultural/farm business (without quitting my job in the first few years, in order to support the expenses)
What do you think?

4- starting with “passive” and as much as possible organic - (or at least “less time consuming”) productions like livestock, fruit tree/bushes; at the beginning poultry/vegetables only for family use
Questions: what would you suggest about livestock poultry? How much land will be necessary for a calf/beef to grow on?

Please, I know it seems stupid, maybe it is just a dream, but I really would like to change my life. It will not be an economically productive choice, but the work-life will be better.

Thank to everyone who will answer me, discuss or criticise this post!

 

[ThatsSomeSheep]

First thing I would suggest, before you jump in both feet, is go and get some on farm experience and learn a bit about what works and what doesn't.

Good luck

TSS

 

[Raider112]

Bear in mind that a thread on here has a lot of posts from people with many times the acreage that you are talking about who are fed up with low returns and disillusioned with their work/life balance. That said, if you don't follow your dream you might always regret it and you only get one go at life so better to try and fail than die wondering. The poster on here who is farming in a similar way to this is Pasty so his is probably the best advice to take. Go for it and good luck.

 

[ollie989898]

You are mental. Move to a house in the cuds, stay in existing work and get an unpaid job on a farm to soothe your farming habit.

You could not give me 800 acres to farm myself. I would not do it.

 

[SRRC]

Best have a look at Ozzie's thread.

 

[Man_in_black]

It's better to regret something you did do than something you didn't.

I share the same dream and I've made a start. It's very tough but I'm sure you realise that. Don't bankrupt yourself just starting up. Good luck.

 

[ARW]

You need a lot more than 10 acres to produce a living off and it won't pay the mortgage. You need a lot of outside/extra cash to fund buying land and at the current prices, you might have it paid off in 100 years farming it right.

 

[bobajob]

I would agree, you need to get out and do some practical work on farms, give you more insight into the job. Not sure what your number 3 point is, I think you mean farm start up grants- don't think there is such a thing - or if there is it won't be much. Goodluck!

 

[ollandroverman]

I may sound a little cynical with this....but if you feel like leaving your current line of work due to stress...
Please do not believe you will leave a stressful job in the city, and walk into a dreamy rural, stress free ideal.

Having a safe regular income is very different to relying on sales of a product, which in reality, could expire at any moment all the way through the slow nurturing process to point of sale.
It is very much like being self employed, yet having no idea when, or if ever, you will get your continuously invested funds back.
We all just make it look stress free...

 

[ollandroverman]

2- get a loan/business mortgage
Question: I am not actually sure which one is what I am looking for, nor where I can find enough information. Any idea?

In answer to this point in your opening post, Really you need to have capitol in a tangible asset/ assets to secure loans or mortgages against. So unless you are currently a home owner with a proportion of your property owned by your self, and not the mortgage company (so to speak), borrowing working capitol will be very hard. You will possibly only be able to raise unsecured loans such as credit cards.
Remember, in business cash-flow is king, and managing it successfully can be bloody hard.

 

[Greenbeast]

We have started this journey. We have borrowed and ploughed tens and tens of thousands into it. But one of us has a vets wage and will continue to do so.
I've come from a sort-of farming background and have friends/family/mentors to advise and help, going into this work.
I cannot imagine doing it with just money.

 

[Danllan]

I may sound a little cynical with this....but if you feel like leaving your current line of work due to stress...

Yes, but there is stress that is 'worth it' and stress that isn't.

@BertieT Give it a go, but don't be blo*dy stupid and jack everything in first. Have a go at half a dozen things as a helper and get an idea about what you will like doing. Of course, some things need a lot of land, others don't - specialist veg' and breeding pedigree stock are a couple of options, but... to succeed in either (and most other things) you will need skill and experience. The thing you mustn't do is jump in at the deep end unless you have a real safety net; everything agricultural costs money, and it's probably more than you think.

I have been around cattle all my life so no problems there, but only around sheep on the farms of family and friends, so starting a new flock was daunting, but I had support from those with experience. As has been written above, getting a network of people you can turn to for help / advice is invaluable. Books are useful, the good ones, but you need experience to teach you the best ways of working.

So, try a few things, pursue the one(s) you like most as a hobby, see if you can make them pay; if you can, move to part time 'work' and have a go at making the hobby pay more. If you succeed, that's the time to think about doing it full time.

Best of British.

 

[marcusthehat]

I might start keeping a few free range/organic/outdoor pigs once retired in a few months, or Dexter or Irish Moiled cattle, as a satisfying hobby on the back of 32 years graft in a salaried job which I definately did not enjoy.
Why do I make this statement?, only to attempt to highlight how bloody hard is is to earn a better wage, than by pulling down a salary, because God knows I thought about breaking free, BUT did not possess the imagination (the USP) or dogged determination to make a go of it.
So I knuckled down and struggled on, like many apparently "happy" Farmers do (or so I understand)
Far off grass is always greener.
But good luck, regardless of your decision.
PS
The last paragraph, in the post above, is very sound advice/the best advice.

 

[pgk]

I might start keeping a few free range/organic/outdoor pigs once retired in a few months, or Dexter or Irish Moiled cattle, as a satisfying hobby on the back of 32 years graft in a salaried job which I definately did not enjoy.
Why do I make this statement?, only to attempt to highlight how bloody hard is is to earn a better wage, than by pulling down a salary, because God knows I thought about breaking free, BUT did not possess the imagination (the USP) or dogged determination to make a go of it.
So I knuckled down and struggled on, like many apparently "happy" Farmers do (or so I understand)
Far off grass is always greener.
But good luck, regardless of your decision.
PS
The last paragraph, in the post above, is very sound advice/the best advice.

Whilst I have enjoyed my salaried job for the last 28 years, before that very dodgy, I got same bug 20 years ago. Started by helping FIL with his cattle n sheep, he hated sheep. Talked him into getting rid of suffolks n doing c800 store lambs each winter. 12 years ago bought 10 pedigree lleyns n ram. Got up to 100 lleyn ewes but have gradually moved over to woolshedders. Now have more than 200 and have bought 30 acres of my own. Did have a go at Dexters n British Whites but made no money. Salary has enabled me to do all this whilst farm maintains my sanity without money worries.

 

[Selectamatic]

@BertieT

I am in a similar situation to you, but am possibly further down the route by now...

I had a 'good' job in terms of money and 'career potential' however, I was as miserable as sin, I had done it for 10 years and was thoroughly sick of it.

I packed in, and have got myself a job, with no excessive commute, that I thoroughly enjoy.

To soothe the farming itch, I have rented 6 acres, and now own nearly 4 acres. and am having a lot of fun doing so, it cover's its costs but would in no way be sufficient to make a full time living from.

The long term plan? Find somewhere to buy, buy it, farm it, again we are talking tiny acreage's. The blunt truth is that, short of winning the lottery or shacking up with a spinster, I will never own a 'proper' farm.

If I were you, do the above, start small, get your feet under you, go from there.

I purchased a field this year, paid about half of the value of a semi detached house for it. Why did I not buy a semi and rent it out? £500 a month rather than £500 a year for a patch of mud? Simple answer is... because that's what I wanted to do!

Good luck!

 

[Pasty]

The one thing you need is a money maker or two. That should be the first consideration, especially if you are borrowing to fund this. You need some core business or job which is not commodity farming. Yes, you can feed yourself quite cheaply but that also takes time and you'll still have other bills coming into the household. So you either have to look for a niche business which uses little land and you think can work or you need to keep a separate job, for a while at least. You'll need positive cash flow. Perhaps you could take on some relief milking or something like that or helping at busy times on other farms. Do some fencing if have the skills and the strength.

In terms of growing your own food, it's possible but it's also possible to spend a lot of money on kit and end up with nothing. Veg and cheap cuts of meat have never been cheaper and you'll struggle to match the prices unless you are growing from seed, using home made compost (takes time) and put a lot of work into it. You'll never feed a chicken up to kill weight cheaper than you can buy a factory broiler in the supermarket unless you have a source of free grain. It's just not possible. I run all my cockerels on and we eat them and while it's satisfying and much tastier, I put in all the work and it cost me more than I can buy ready cut birds for. I do it because there is more to life than buying cheap chicken. The point being, it's not saving me any money. It's costing me but it's worth it. We are going to up our veg growing massively next year for the same reason but it would still probably be cheaper to buy it in a supermarket.

So, yes, go for it but on 10 acres you are going to need something that makes good money. Shepherds hut or something. Or buy in firewood and process and sell or something. Problem is, as with any enterprise, the early days are where you will make all those costly mistakes so my advice would be keep the day job for a while or exchange it for evening work or a couple part time jobs. Work your arse off and live the dream.

 

[Robw54]

The one thing you need is a money maker or two. That should be the first consideration, especially if you are borrowing to fund this. You need some core business or job which is not commodity farming. Yes, you can feed yourself quite cheaply but that also takes time and you'll still have other bills coming into the household. So you either have to look for a niche business which uses little land and you think can work or you need to keep a separate job, for a while at least. You'll need positive cash flow. Perhaps you could take on some relief milking or something like that or helping at busy times on other farms. Do some fencing if have the skills and the strength.

In terms of growing your own food, it's possible but it's also possible to spend a lot of money on kit and end up with nothing. Veg and cheap cuts of meat have never been cheaper and you'll struggle to match the prices unless you are growing from seed, using home made compost (takes time) and put a lot of work into it. You'll never feed a chicken up to kill weight cheaper than you can buy a factory broiler in the supermarket unless you have a source of free grain. It's just not possible. I run all my cockerels on and we eat them and while it's satisfying and much tastier, I put in all the work and it cost me more than I can buy ready cut birds for. I do it because there is more to life than buying cheap chicken. The point being, it's not saving me any money. It's costing me but it's worth it. We are going to up our veg growing massively next year for the same reason but it would still probably be cheaper to buy it in a supermarket.

So, yes, go for it but on 10 acres you are going to need something that makes good money. Shepherds hut or something. Or buy in firewood and process and sell or something. Problem is, as with any enterprise, the early days are where you will make all those costly mistakes so my advice would be keep the day job for a while or exchange it for evening work or a couple part time jobs. Work your arse off and live the dream.

Spot on, you need a secure income otherwise you won't enjoy it with constant pressure to succeed.

I grow a few pumpkins for the kids and they are cheap as chips to buy. Complete crop failure this year due to slugs during the early wet summer. I spent hours picking them off and pellets to no avail and a disaster if I was growing commercially.

Nothing goes 100% all the time and you will need it to.

Our whole world in now geared to specialists in every sector - the jack of all has no chance competing on price and quality these days as they can do both very well.

 

[DrWazzock]

Not much help to the OP but I think if employers were a bit more flexible and allowed job sharing or rotation then it would make a lot of people a lot happier.

I spent from aged 21 until 35 in engineering industry and its not that I went off engineering, but I just got sick of the same old projects day in day out writing very specialist software that anybody could do with the right training. Meanwhile my skillset became so narrow that I couldn't move into other areas of IT without retraining. I was lucky enough to be able to go back to farming as its what the family do, but even that can become tiresome after years trying to compete with bigger and bigger and growers and lower prices. We don't have time to do all the things on the farm that the many staff used to do, like mole catching etc and its become a bit of a fire fighting job, just doing what's essential so that we don't spend too much time or money on what isn't directly productive or necessary. At the same time we are trying to increase other outside work like engineering that actually generates income and involves more brain work than sheer drudgery.

I don't discourage the OP, but would question whether its really a case of wanting to work in agriculture or simply wanting to break free from the rat race. If its just a case of wanting to break free from the rat race, then why not consider going self employed or setting up your own small business in something that pays better and doesn't require the vast amount of capital that agriculture requires.

Looking back I was never happier than the time between college and engineering when I had my own van and small groundworks business. If you were willing and not daft, it was surprising how the jobs came in.

And personally I think that the age of capital hungry businesses that generate paltry returns producing cheap commodities competing with South America and China is well and truly over. The way forward in the West is services and knowledge based industry, speciality or niche market products. The key is finding the right ones.

 

[Greenbeast]

Not much help to the OP but I think if employers were a bit more flexible and allowed job sharing or rotation then it would make a lot of people a lot happier.

I spent from aged 21 until 35 in engineering industry and its not that I went off engineering, but I just got sick of the same old projects day in day out writing very specialist software that anybody could do with the right training. Meanwhile my skillset became so narrow that I couldn't move into other areas of IT without retraining. I was lucky enough to be able to go back to farming as its what the family do, but even that can become tiresome after years trying to compete with bigger and bigger and growers and lower prices. We don't have time to do all the things on the farm that the many staff used to do, like mole catching etc and its become a bit of a fire fighting job, just doing what's essential so that we don't spend too much time or money on what isn't directly productive or necessary. At the same time we are trying to increase other outside work like engineering that actually generates income and involves more brain work than sheer drudgery.

I don't discourage the OP, but would question whether its really a case of wanting to work in agriculture or simply wanting to break free from the rat race. If its just a case of wanting to break free from the rat race, then why not consider going self employed or setting up your own small business in something that pays better and doesn't require the vast amount of capital that agriculture requires.

Looking back I was never happier than the time between college and engineering when I had my own van and small groundworks business. If you were willing and not daft, it was surprising how the jobs came in.

And personally I think that the age of capital hungry businesses that generate paltry returns producing cheap commodities competing with South America and China is well and truly over. The way forward in the West is services and knowledge based industry, speciality or niche market products. The key is finding the right ones.

My dad left his last office job at about 50 and set up as a gardener/groundskeeping/decorator, i think he earns more now and the work never stops coming

 

[Deereone]

I have done what you wish to do. It was far from easy, certainly not stressful but can be done.