Livestock farmers- views on climate and ruminants

[Wood field]

Haven’t Savory amongst other’s used ruminants to reverse desertification?
yet to be frank we see great swathes of western farmland ploughed bare and blowing in the wind

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

More point scoring? It’s not ruminant livestock that causes overgrazing, but the way they’re being managed near your village.
I say again, ruminant livestock are not the cause of climate change.

I can’t say that I’ve seen overgrazing that’s led to ‘desertification’, resulting in sand that blows away, but then I’ve never farmed near sand. More usually the land becomes colonised by short, dense, relatively unproductive, grasses and small leaved wild white clover. The grazing management changes the dominant species in the same way that long resting periods do, although of course, those short unproductive grasses don’t pose a wildfire risk.

Not quite sure what the difference is?

Not point scoring. Merely pointing out that there is a lot of the world outside the UK. It all would have been natural habitat before humans left Africa and started chopping down trees and farming.

I'll say again, it's a problem caused by civilisation, not just farming.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Not quite sure what the difference is?

Not point scoring. Merely pointing out that there is a lot of the world outside the UK. It all would have been natural habitat before humans left Africa and started chopping down trees and farming.

I'll say again, it's a problem caused by civilisation, not just farming.

and we are lucky in the UK that our climate is pretty benign so we can pretty much do as we please and our soils tend to cope with it in the short term, longer term we are degreasing them, but longer term tends to be longer than one mans working lifetime, so it is often hard to compare generation to generation. There are parts of the world where they don't have our advantages, so the degradation is far faster and these tend to be the areas that are suffering from desertification. Land use in these areas alters the local hydrological cycles, which combined with poor grazing management is desertifying large areas in the "brittle" environment. Ideas from the environmentalists and ecologists to reduce grazing only make things worse.

P A Yeomans, in his book, talked about taking over his farm, and following the guidelines for land use only to find that that his water use got worse! That is how he came to develop his keyline ideas of landscape management.

 

[Henarar]

Not quite sure what the difference is?

Not point scoring. Merely pointing out that there is a lot of the world outside the UK. It all would have been natural habitat before humans left Africa and started chopping down trees and farming.

I'll say again, it's a problem caused by civilisation, not just farming.

It was the elephants pushing the trees over that shook humans out of them which meant they had to walk around on their hind legs and grow big heads.
If in doubt blame the elephants especially those in the room.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

and we are lucky in the UK that our climate is pretty benign so we can pretty much do as we please and our soils tend to cope with it in the short term, longer term we are degreasing them, but longer term tends to be longer than one mans working lifetime, so it is often hard to compare generation to generation. There are parts of the world where they don't have our advantages, so the degradation is far faster and these tend to be the areas that are suffering from desertification. Land use in these areas alters the local hydrological cycles, which combined with poor grazing management is decertifying large areas in the "brittle" environment. Ideas from the environmentalists and ecologists to reduce grazing only make things worse.

P A Yeomans, in his book, talked about taking over his farm, and following the guidelines for land use only to find that that his water use got worse! That is how he came to develop his keyline ideas of landscape management.

Name of book?

 

[Y Fan Wen]

Name of book?

Water For Every Farm: Yeomans Keyline Plan: Amazon.co.uk: Yeomans, The Late P. A., Yeomans, Ken B.: 9781438225784: Books

Buy Water For Every Farm: Yeomans Keyline Plan by Yeomans, The Late P. A., Yeomans, Ken B. (ISBN: 9781438225784) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Name of book?

Priority One: Together We Can Beat Global Warming - Allan Yeomans: 9780979479939 - AbeBooks

Priority One: Together We Can Beat Global Warming by Allan Yeomans - ISBN 10: 0979479932 - ISBN 13: 9780979479939 - Biosphere Media, LLC - 2007 - Softcover

www.abebooks.com

 

[P Simmonds]

Hi folks, hope everyone had a good weekend. Thanks to those who have replied/emailed/DMed with constructive comments and advice.

I decided to keep my original post short and sweet, as I understand you’re all busy people. However, this seems to have left a lot of room for misunderstanding regarding the study/my agenda, which I should have anticipated given the topic. Apologies for any offence caused.

Here’s a few more details about the study if anyone’s still interested/curious:

Aim: This research accepts there is a contested and polarised debate in the UK around the relationship between climate and ruminant livestock. The aim is to learn how people in the UK livestock sector talk about cows, sheep, and climate change. I am interested in how different ways of talking about the “problem” (or lack thereof) lead to different ideas and actions, and how different proposed “solutions” fit in with livestock farmers’ real lives. All of this has implications for future agricultural policy.

Methods: I’m analysing a large number of news articles from the mainstream media and the farming media to understand how different stories get legitimised and normalised. I’ve been interviewing stakeholders in the broader livestock sector (including vets, agri-tech folks, farm consultants, and policymakers), and I’m currently interviewing livestock farmers in and around the South Downs, where I’m based.

The logic behind visiting farms in person is to use a method called “walking interviews” (exactly what it sounds like, for more info see this paper). This offers various benefits, including helping the researcher to understand the individual farm context in a more holistic manner. Personally, I don’t believe it’s ethical to research this topic without making the effort to visit any farms. Interviews can be completed in 1 hour, but so far interviewees have had a lot to say and we’ve ended up taking longer (always under 2 hours).

To minimise emissions, I’m focusing on two “case study” areas- the South Downs, and Northumberland and Cumbria. The latter two were selected to ensure hill farmers are represented, and because I already have a few contacts in those areas. I’ll be using public transport to travel long-distance, and a hire car to travel between farms. That being said, I’m happy to conduct telephone/Zoom interviews if necessary- it comes down to each participant’s preference.

Finally, I’m planning to work on a participatory photo project with a smaller cohort of interested interviewees. This will all be conducted online over Zoom, and will involve participants telling their farming stories through photos and captions. We’ll decide as a group whether and how to publish those stories.

I hope that clarifies some of the misunderstandings above. If you have any further questions or would like to take part, please feel free to email or DM me. Thanks for your time.

 

[DrDunc]

Hi folks, hope everyone had a good weekend. Thanks to those who have replied/emailed/DMed with constructive comments and advice.

I decided to keep my original post short and sweet, as I understand you’re all busy people. However, this seems to have left a lot of room for misunderstanding regarding the study/my agenda, which I should have anticipated given the topic. Apologies for any offence caused.

Here’s a few more details about the study if anyone’s still interested/curious:

Aim: This research accepts there is a contested and polarised debate in the UK around the relationship between climate and ruminant livestock. The aim is to learn how people in the UK livestock sector talk about cows, sheep, and climate change. I am interested in how different ways of talking about the “problem” (or lack thereof) lead to different ideas and actions, and how different proposed “solutions” fit in with livestock farmers’ real lives. All of this has implications for future agricultural policy.

Methods: I’m analysing a large number of news articles from the mainstream media and the farming media to understand how different stories get legitimised and normalised. I’ve been interviewing stakeholders in the broader livestock sector (including vets, agri-tech folks, farm consultants, and policymakers), and I’m currently interviewing livestock farmers in and around the South Downs, where I’m based.

The logic behind visiting farms in person is to use a method called “walking interviews” (exactly what it sounds like, for more info see this paper). This offers various benefits, including helping the researcher to understand the individual farm context in a more holistic manner. Personally, I don’t believe it’s ethical to research this topic without making the effort to visit any farms. Interviews can be completed in 1 hour, but so far interviewees have had a lot to say and we’ve ended up taking longer (always under 2 hours).

To minimise emissions, I’m focusing on two “case study” areas- the South Downs, and Northumberland and Cumbria. The latter two were selected to ensure hill farmers are represented, and because I already have a few contacts in those areas. I’ll be using public transport to travel long-distance, and a hire car to travel between farms. That being said, I’m happy to conduct telephone/Zoom interviews if necessary- it comes down to each participant’s preference.

Finally, I’m planning to work on a participatory photo project with a smaller cohort of interested interviewees. This will all be conducted online over Zoom, and will involve participants telling their farming stories through photos and captions. We’ll decide as a group whether and how to publish those stories.

I hope that clarifies some of the misunderstandings above. If you have any further questions or would like to take part, please feel free to email or DM me. Thanks for your time.

Aye, that's better

 

[topground]

@P Simmonds If a lie is repeated often enough. You might also care to study the techniques preferred by Joseph Goebbels.

 

[roscoe erf]

 

[Top Tip.]

View attachment 1051987

The thing that separates livestock and crops from the rest is that there production also sequestrates carbon.

 

[Hilly]

The thing that separates livestock and crops from the rest is that there production also sequestrates carbon.

Dose out grass not ? How do you this ? We only know what we are told which could be a load of rubbish ?

 

[Top Tip.]

Dose out grass not ? How do you this ? We only know what we are told which could be a load of rubbish ?

I’m saying that grass does sequestrate carbon and if we were allowed to measure that and put it against the carbon emissions from livestock production I think you would find the job is carbon neutral at worst .

 

[Henarar]

The thing that separates livestock and crops from the rest is that there production also sequestrates carbon.

net emissions would be more useful

 

[Hilly]

I’m saying that grass does sequestrate carbon and if we were allowed to measure that and put it against the carbon emissions from livestock production I think you would find the job is carbon neutral at worst .

How donwe know about this carbon ? Ot could all be lies ?

 

[Henarar]

I’m saying that grass does sequestrate carbon and if we were allowed to measure that and put it against the carbon emissions from livestock production I think you would find the job is carbon neutral at worst .

the livestock themselves would be [if not then where the feck do they get it from] the farming of livestock may not be but that is the same of all farming.

fact is ruminants are not causing warming they stopped us freezing, will leave you to think about that one

 

[Henarar]

How donwe know about this carbon ? Ot could all be lies ?

carbon is good, without it we wouldn't be here, nor would much else

 

[Hilly]

carbon is good, without it we wouldn't be here, nor would much else

Not saying its good or bad but folk always have plenty to say about it how do they know ? 5 year ago the average farmer had t even heard about carbon now they all have entrenched ideas/opinions etc , based on what ? What they have heard off so called experts ? Could be true could be a load of tosh .

 

[primmiemoo]

Not saying its good or bad but folk always have plenty to say about it how do they know ? 5 year ago the average farmer had t even heard about carbon now they all have entrenched ideas/opinions etc , based on what ? What they have heard off so called experts ? Could be true could be a load of tosh .

There are studies of soil carbon right through from the mid 1800s, which help inform us about the health of our soils, and their capacity to maintain, and even continue to accumulate carbon from organic matter now, and into the future. Soil dynamics, and soil biomes are nowadays being studied at minute scale. I find it all amazing, tbh. Just wish that the scientists weren't as modest about their important work as they are, but I suppose their humility is indicative of their honest methodology, and their careful accumulation of knowledge across more than a century. They certainly don't jump to conclusions.