Long term business with no written agreement

[B R C]

Just out of interest, does planning permission of change of use to equine or leisure mean you can be given statutory notice?

 

[Sid]

Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

Who if anyone has the land on their BPS form? SPS and IACS previously.

Their are plenty of stories in the forum of landlords/tenants (delete as appropriate) who have done the dirty on the other party.

Does depend on if the OP can find another set up like he has now. Starting afresh can cost alot of capital. But LL wants HIS property back.
I am both a landlord and a tenant

Anyone else up here sat on the fence?

 

[Happy]

As Kiwi said, move on.

Even if you could prove a full AHA tenancy (which you won't) the most you would get is 6 years rent as compensation.

Good advice if you want to find similar land to rent in the area.
Digging your heels in and claiming compensation now would be seen as a big negative by others to let you in future.

 

[Wooly]

This will come down to if you are a gentleman or not !?!

The reality is that you probably have a legitimate claim to be a sitting tenant.............. but if your Landlord let your Father use tha land to help him out years ago, do you want to pay his kindness with greed now ?

I suggest you keep farming it. Hopefully if it gets planning for houses, your Landlord will come along with a few quid for you to vacate.

 

[7610 super q]

These threads never cease to amaze me. Anyhoo, I'm off to start a tractor and combine thieving thread.

 

[Formatted]

I wonder if you would all be so quick to tell a tenant who had a 200 acre farm on an unwritten tenancy to quit. For this chap his 2 acres might well be his life, half his income, why are you all so quick to judge because it isn't an enormous acerage?

 

[som farmer]

It's all about doing the 'right' thing, odd bits of land are farmed without written agreements, paddocks/fields with non farming owners, we have 4 bits, totaling 30acres, on gentlemen's agreements, the word gentleman, sums it up.

 

[ISCO]

I wonder if you would all be so quick to tell a tenant who had a 200 acre farm on an unwritten tenancy to quit. For this chap his 2 acres might well be his life, half his income, why are you all so quick to judge because it isn't an enormous acerage?

This is the point and we all know land, no matter what the acreage, is not easy to come by.
There are posts on here which seem to suggest that my posts above are advocating stealing the land. I have only explained what the law allows. Now you may not agree with the law but it is what it is!.

I know a landlord who had a tenant claim an AHA and assign to a company. The landlord took counsel's opinion and there was nothing the landlord could do.

 

[CornishPasty]

Thanks for everybody's help on this.

For what it is worth, I am not really too interested in compensation above and beyond what it would cost me to clear the land, and I am firmly intent on acting honourably. I expect the landowner will do the same thing.

However, I am really worried about the landowner evicting me from the land at a moment's notice and I want to make sure I know where I stand. It's only 2 acres, yes, but I have grown up on it and so have my children. We even have the odd dead family pet dotted around the site.

I will seek professional advice from a local land agent. In the meantime, is anybody able to comment on whether my father's death in the last 10 years will have any effect on whether I have an AHA or a Farm Business Tenancy? The original, verbal, agreement will have been an AHA, but would that have come to an end when my father passed, and a new tenancy begun when I became the user of the land? I did not do any paperwork when he died in this respect, I simply carried on ploughing my furrow, so to speak.

 

[theboytheboy]

This is the point and we all know land, no matter what the acreage, is not easy to come by.
There are posts on here which seem to suggest that my posts above are advocating stealing the land. I have only explained what the law allows. Now you may not agree with the law but it is what it is!.

I know a landlord who had a tenant claim an AHA and assign to a company. The landlord took counsel's opinion and there was nothing the landlord could do.

Legal and moral dont always go hand in hand. Just because the law allows something doesn't mean its the right thing to do.

Not a dig at you as i dont know enough about the situation. I am a landlord and tenant for what its worth.

 

[ISCO]

Legal and moral dont always go hand in hand. Just because the law allows something doesn't mean its the right thing to do.

Not a dig at you as i dont know enough about the situation. I am a landlord and tenant for what its worth.

Well yes that is correct. I myself have not done what the law allows I just happen to know what the law says from experience.
The thing is if a surveyor or solicitor is consulted and they do not explain what I have explained they would be negligent.
It is for everyone to draw their own conclusions and act as they see fit.
It is also easier to take the moral high ground when nothing is at stake. To do so when the chips are down is a different thing entirely.

 

[Goweresque]

Just out of interest, does planning permission of change of use to equine or leisure mean you can be given statutory notice?

Yes. I know of a case not too far from me where that happened. A small holding was sold with a sitting AHA tenant, the new owner got planning to turn it over to equestrian use, and the tenant had to leave. Any change of use from agriculture would do I think.

 

[betweenthelines]

Why will I not?

Because you don't have a written tenancy agreement, you don't even seem to know when your father started renting it, you don't know what was said when your father started renting it, it is less land than can registered as an agric holding so is just a big garden, you took it over without any written consent, and the fact that the owner wants you out!

The only thing in your favour is that you say the owner has accepted rent from you. However as I doubt you have any proof of this, he could well say you haven't paid any rent for over a year despite repeated requests, or that he told you 2 years (or even 10 years) ago, that he would terminate the arrangement in 2020.

Edited to add: Unless you're growing something as expensive as saffron, how the hell have you got the nerve to call 2 acres a "long term business"

 

[betweenthelines]

I wonder if you would all be so quick to tell a tenant who had a 200 acre farm on an unwritten tenancy to quit. For this chap his 2 acres might well be his life, half his income, why are you all so quick to judge because it isn't an enormous acerage?

A "tenant" on 200 acres with no written agreement is 100 times more foolish than the OP

 

[atlas]

Cant you just speak to the owner and ask him his plans for the ground and explain that you need to know so you can plan a exit from the land if required .

 

[lim x]

Thanks for everybody's help on this.

For what it is worth, I am not really too interested in compensation above and beyond what it would cost me to clear the land, and I am firmly intent on acting honourably. I expect the landowner will do the same thing.

However, I am really worried about the landowner evicting me from the land at a moment's notice and I want to make sure I know where I stand. It's only 2 acres, yes, but I have grown up on it and so have my children. We even have the odd dead family pet dotted around the site.

I will seek professional advice from a local land agent. In the meantime, is anybody able to comment on whether my father's death in the last 10 years will have any effect on whether I have an AHA or a Farm Business Tenancy? The original, verbal, agreement will have been an AHA, but would that have come to an end when my father passed, and a new tenancy begun when I became the user of the land? I did not do any paperwork when he died in this respect, I simply carried on ploughing my furrow, so to speak.

In two of your early posts you ask what compensation you may be due and yet now you are saying it's not compensation you require.
You're not sure yourself if you have any agreement at all and have been happy with situation until now.
If the owner is hoping for a planning permission for housing but hasn't made an application yet then this will afford you plenty of time to clear and vacate as it can take a year to get an application passed.
If you've had enjoyment from this land without a lot of bother, move on and save yourself a lot of expense and grief.