Looking back at my spray records, where did it all go wrong?

[Richard84]

Writing up my spray records from just applying some pre-ems, I looked back to mid 2000's. The amount of chemicals we use now compared to then and how we got by with simple fungicides makes it look like the industry has gone down the pan. A lot of actives have gone and those left we have been flogging to death for the past 20 years. Anything new that comes in seems to just about stand it's ground for a couple of years before it starts to become less effective and then more stacks are needed and the cost has become unstable. Thoughts on this?

 

[SilliamWhale]

A huge percentage of it is marketing. I can still get sh!t yields when I use expensive fungicides and I can actually get amazing yields when using run of the mill stuff.

I do value sdhi technology but lets be honest - the marketing budgets for these are huge and we don't have many other options anyway. The other thing is the idea that we are getting used to thinking that marginal gains and the attendant higher costs of those marginal gains are always worth it, it may work in elite sports etc but on a farm level I'm not so sure

From the herbicide pov we are corralled (and we have corralled ourselves too) into using just a few types of active because things are expensive and we have become so specialised in trying to focus on one profitable crop which is usually winter wheat.

 

[ajd132]

A huge percentage of it is marketing. I can still get sh!t yields when I use expensive fungicides and I can actually get amazing yields when using run of the mill stuff.

I do value sdhi technology but lets be honest - the marketing budgets for these are huge and we don't have many other options anyway. The other thing is the idea that we are getting used to thinking that marginal gains and the attendant higher costs of those marginal gains are always worth it, it may work in elite sports etc but on a farm level I'm not so sure

From the herbicide pov we are corralled (and we have corralled ourselves too) into using just a few types of active because things are expensive and we have become so specialised in trying to focus on one profitable crop which is usually winter wheat.

I love your point about marginal gains, I put the argument out on Twitter a few months ago that marginal gains do not work in farming and got backflash

 

[Richard84]

Herbicide use is like searching for the holy grail, because you can see where they have failed you know it isn't working. Fungicides are a whole different issue, its so hard on a farm level to measure the benefits, a lot of it can just come down to the weather and timing. Would an older product have done just a well. You're right on the marketing, it is milked for all it's worth. I wonder where things will go when the BPS payment is gone. I can't see it stacking up on less then 8t/ha crop of wheat and that's probably being generous.

 

[Richard84]

Some of the stated benefits are so marginal there is no difference, then you have graphs manipulated like the OxyContin scam that Purdue did with it's drug testing data.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I love your point about marginal gains, I put the argument out on Twitter a few months ago that marginal gains do not work in farming and got backflash

They might work, sometimes...but it depends how resilient you are when they don't ie how affordable it is to do this. Marginal gains may work well in elite performance but I'm not sure if it serves so well for crop growing.

We all like to think we are different and a bit special etc but even the recommended list and its marginal gains for each variety has an element of deceit about it (which is not to saw breeding can bring yield improvements as it clearly can)

 

[teslacoils]

Grew my spring barley with a blw spray and a dessicant. One fungicide. It's winter wheat that gets all the gear, mainly to get blackgrass under control.

 

[Two Tone]

Grew my spring barley with a blw spray and a dessicant. One fungicide. It's winter wheat that gets all the gear, mainly to get blackgrass under control.

You mean ‘Trying to grow wheat while controlling Blackgrass’.

 

[David.]

Oh, I don't know, there have always been a succession of new fungicides that shat miracles for a couple of years, Bayleton group, Silvacur, Opus, Amistar etc, were all cutting edge in their day and had advertising budgets to match.

 

[teslacoils]

You mean ‘Trying to grow wheat while controlling Blackgrass’.

Companion crop.

 

[teslacoils]

Oh, I don't know, there have always been a succession of new fungicides that shat miracles for a couple of years, Bayleton group, Silvacur, Opus, Amistar etc, were all cutting edge in their day and had advertising budgets to match.

Ah opus. I miss you.

 

[B R C]

Oats are cheap to grow but in the mid 90’s Ivthink we were just putting on one fungicide, tebuconazole(I think), they were really cheap to grow then, not sure we are getting better results now…

 

[richard hammond]

A huge percentage of it is marketing. I can still get sh!t yields when I use expensive fungicides and I can actually get amazing yields when using run of the mill stuff.

I do value sdhi technology but lets be honest - the marketing budgets for these are huge and we don't have many other options anyway. The other thing is the idea that we are getting used to thinking that marginal gains and the attendant higher costs of those marginal gains are always worth it, it may work in elite sports etc but on a farm level I'm not so sure

From the herbicide pov we are corralled (and we have corralled ourselves too) into using just a few types of active because things are expensive and we have become so specialised in trying to focus on one profitable crop which is usually winter wheat.

Its all about the sell!!!

 

[Will Blackburn]

It needs a revolt, it's the same the world over, a bigger percentage of output £ is making its way into other peoples pockets. Marginal gains just bring the price down.

 

[farmerm]

I love your point about marginal gains, I put the argument out on Twitter a few months ago that marginal gains do not work in farming and got backflash

Marginal gains are far too easily dwarfted by majornal weather, pest, disease and marketing losses!

 

[teslacoils]

Increasing ag productivity is not the UK goal it was in the 60s.

 

[yellow belly]

Writing up my spray records from just applying some pre-ems, I looked back to mid 2000's. The amount of chemicals we use now compared to then and how we got by with simple fungicides makes it look like the industry has gone down the pan. A lot of actives have gone and those left we have been flogging to death for the past 20 years. Anything new that comes in seems to just about stand it's ground for a couple of years before it starts to become less effective and then more stacks are needed and the cost has become unstable. Thoughts on this?

The mid 2000s was a very hard time to farm
wheat at 60 to 80 a tonne rent at less than set aside payments
strong £

the cheap sprays we had had been developed in the 1980s and were off patent
ipu folicur bravo cheap oil and fertiliser under £ 100 a tonne
the margin was very low

 

[farmerm]

The mid 2000s was a very hard time to farm
wheat at 60 to 80 a tonne rent at less than set aside payments
strong £

the cheap sprays we had had been developed in the 1980s and were off patent
ipu folicur bravo cheap oil and fertiliser under £ 100 a tonne
the margin was very low

The problem we face now is the grain values are higher but the cost higher still and the security blanket of BPS is failing away. The margin for producing anything less than an exceptional crop is again approaching very low but the sums invested/gambled in growing a crop mean any losses are getting more and more difficult to stand.

 

[yellow belly]

The problem we face now is the grain values are higher but the cost higher still and the security blanket of BPS is failing away. The margin for producing anything less than an exceptional crop is again approaching very low but the sums invested/gambled in growing a crop mean any losses are getting more and more difficult to stand.

when wheat was less than £80 a tonne the benefit of combineing an extra half a tonne was less than the cost of fertiliser spray drying and harvesting and marketing cost control was the most important skill
the last 3 years there Is a higher reward for getting extra yield and spending a bit more time
if wheat stays sub 180 harvest price then cost control will have to take presidence

it does look like Sfi will help increase margin on my farm on top of mid tier

 

[Flat 10]

A huge percentage of it is marketing. I can still get sh!t yields when I use expensive fungicides and I can actually get amazing yields when using run of the mill stuff.

I do value sdhi technology but lets be honest - the marketing budgets for these are huge and we don't have many other options anyway. The other thing is the idea that we are getting used to thinking that marginal gains and the attendant higher costs of those marginal gains are always worth it, it may work in elite sports etc but on a farm level I'm not so sure

From the herbicide pov we are corralled (and we have corralled ourselves too) into using just a few types of active because things are expensive and we have become so specialised in trying to focus on one profitable crop which is usually winter wheat.

We have been corralled by the banning of cheap off patent (effective too in many cases) chemicals in many instances…
Ipu, simazine, ctl, epoxi etc etc.