Looking grim .......

[DrWazzock]

These are exactly the questions I’m asking and similar conclusions I’m coming up with.

BUT….. is the catalyst the excessive rain we have had the cause of such a sudden, catastrophic breakdown in Blackgrass control?
And if so, has this in effect scuppered RPA’s incentive of trying to make Agriculture more so-called more environmentally friendly by trying to persuade us all to Direct Drill?
Because when it comes down to it, Blackgrass control is and always will be the most important, overriding issue that must take precedence.

OR can we continue with DD, but only rotationally.
And if we are already using AB6 Enhanced Overwintered Stubbles, such as I am, will this in effect mean a full return to the plough and end DD completely for me?

Jury is well and truly out!

Ploughing is the method least vulnerable to the weather and least dependent on dubious chemical fixes. Yes it has environmental impacts and maybe isn’t as carbon friendly but it tends to cover many bases and deliver the goods.
DD requires management acrobatics in my view and a fairly complex combination of covers, trash management, less profitable rotations, spring cropping etc. There’s a much narrower drilling window here.
If you have a lot to do it needs to be simple and straightforward in my opinion. Ploughing, though slower in itself, at least fits that bill and keeps things moving forward much like the “tortoise and the hare”. It’s a bit more weatherproof. It’s why the mouldboard plough revolutionised cereal growing in wetter clay soils of Northern Europe.

 

[Two Tone]

These are exactly the questions I’m asking and similar conclusions I’m coming up with.

BUT….. is the catalyst the excessive rain we have had the cause of such a sudden, catastrophic breakdown in Blackgrass control?
And if so, has this in effect scuppered RPA’s incentive of trying to make Agriculture more so-called more environmentally friendly by trying to persuade us all to Direct Drill?
Because when it comes down to it, Blackgrass control is and always will be the most important, overriding issue that must take precedence.

OR can we continue with DD, but only rotationally.
And if we are already using AB6 Enhanced Overwintered Stubbles, such as I am, will this in effect mean a full return to the plough and end DD completely for me?

Jury is well and truly out!

Even Harry is having similar problems, though you don’t see the entire picture until 19 mins and 45 seconds in.

He has Brome in his DD’d bit and one hell of a lot of grass in his Claydon’d bit.
All caused by the excessive rainfall and he is on mostly very free-draining land!
He isn’t going to successfully control the brome or grass spraying it now.

 

[Two Tone]

Ploughing is the method least vulnerable to the weather and least dependent on dubious chemical fixes. Yes it has environmental impacts and maybe isn’t as carbon friendly but it tends to cover many bases and deliver the goods.
DD requires management acrobatics in my view and a fairly complex combination of covers, trash management, less profitable rotations, spring cropping etc. There’s a much narrower drilling window here.
If you have a lot to do it needs to be simple and straightforward in my opinion. Ploughing, though slower in itself, at least fits that bill and keeps things moving forward much like the “tortoise and the hare”. It’s a bit more weatherproof. It’s why the mouldboard plough revolutionised cereal growing in wetter clay soils of Northern Europe.

Spot on!
If I return to a plough based system, it will be the 4th time I will have done so in my farming lifetime.
And the reason every time is for repairing and adequate Blackgrass control on Heavy land.
Every time I did so in the past, I said that there wouldn’t be a next (5th) time!

Yes, we know that DD works (better) on lighter soils. But it is all too easy to get fooled that it works on Heavy soils in dryer years, if you can catch the sweet spot ideal drilling conditions.

If you can’t do that, leave the seed in the bags and send the pre-ems back to the distributor, until you have gone back to the system that is most likely to work, being a plough based system.


Like Harry, even I have got severe grass weed problems on my free draining light land, due to the excessive rainfall.
Which begs the question of whether or not I continue with DD at all on any of our land?

What a dilemma?
The problem is that I have completely lost confidence in the weather. I cannot afford the luxury of ending up with awful crops no crops or worse still and catastrophic Blackgrass situation!

My thoughts at the moment are to keep my DD drill, but only for use when and where I am confident it will work.
My days of being a true DD convert, determined to only DD from now on have ended!

 

[4course]

DD never started here big time, though we have occasionally top worked, however reckon this last 7 months has tested every system and soil to a greater or lesser degree .what has worked over time is muck om and plough . The mistake we made this year was rushing to roll to get the pr em on .

 

[Two Tone]

DD never started here big time, though we have occasionally top worked, however reckon this last 7 months has tested every system and soil to a greater or lesser degree .what has worked over time is muck om and plough . The mistake we made this year was rushing to roll to get the pr em on .

Spot on again!

There are farmers that ploughed or min-tilled here that also have less than ideal crops.
But without exception, every single only of them is better that where land was DD’d, even on light land.

In most cases, they have a crop, whereas those of us that DD’d have half a crop at best.

 

[Devil's advocate]

Generally growing fairly well here. Wheat after grass is knee high, wheat after oats not too far behind and triticale also knee high. Lucerne is also pushing knee high, surprising given the year!

Are you on limestone to grow good lucerne? I don't know of any within 50 miles of where I live.

 

[Devil's advocate]

No need to go abroad Skiing to spend time with family, as millions of families World wide who couldn't afford to do that would attest to.

I've not been on holiday since 1992. But that is my choice, I don't mind others going & I can afford to.

You need to get that chip off your shoulder, or the weight will damage your hips.

 

[BrianV]

Spot on!
If I return to a plough based system, it will be the 4th time I will have done so in my farming lifetime.
And the reason every time is for repairing and adequate Blackgrass control on Heavy land.
Every time I did so in the past, I said that there wouldn’t be a next 95th) time!

Yes, we know that DD works (better) on lighter soils. But it is all too easy to get fooled that it works on Heavy soils in dryer years, if you can catch the sweet spot ideal drilling conditions.

If you can’t do that, leave the seed in the bags and send the pre-ems back to the distributor, until you have gone back to the system that is most likely to work, being a plough based system.


Like Harry, even I have got severe grass weed problems on my free draining light land, due to the excessive rainfall.
Which begs the question of whether or not I continue with DD at all on any of our land?

What a dilemma?
The problem is that I have completely lost confidence in the weather. I cannot afford the luxury of ending up with awful crops no crops or worse still and catastrophic Blackgrass situation!

My thoughts at the moment are to keep my DD drill, but only for use when and where I am confident it will work.
My days of being a true DD convert, determined to only DD from now on have ended!

Isn't it simply a case of "horses for courses" & weather dependent, both systems have their pluses & minuses & we use both, it's the demented prats that try & force one system on everyone just because it works for them some of the time, do what you know works & just ignore the pompous idiots!!!

 

[Bury the Trash]

You need to get that chip off your shoulder, or the weight will damage your hips.

the relevance of the comment /reply was about spending time with family of which i have done and relished over the years .

how about you ? how have you got on with spending time with wife and children?

please give us a qualified / experienced relevant answer instead of a rude unintelligent one.

 

[Two Tone]

Isn't it simply a case of "horses for courses" & weather dependent, both systems have their pluses & minuses & we use both, it's the demented prats that try & force one system on everyone just because it works for them some of the time, do what you know works & just ignore the pompous idiots!!!

Yep!
Further muddied by things like SFI paying farmers who use DD.
The problem being that if DD become a disaster once very 5 years as it has this one, that annual payment doesn’t even touch the sides of the loss it has incurred.

I’m thrilled for those that can make it work, but this year really has sorted out where it will always do so and where it will sometimes do so.

A near neighbour of mine went down the Claydon route, but sold his drill last year and went back to 100% ploughing.
He rang me twice yesterday for a chat. The second time, we had both just watched the Harry’s Farm video.
To be fair, he is far from happy with his Heavy land wheat this year, but very pleased with the fact that he ploughed it all.
He also said one thing that could be highly relevant, but I’m not expert to know the answer:

He has used Urea this year, but had some AN left over from last year.
His best looking wheat on his entire fam is where he used up that AN!
Every time he put the Urea on, the crops on his heavy land go backwards first, before the eventually recovering and starts to use it.
He wonders in it is because the land has gone anaerobic?

This is exactly the same as as happened here.

 

[MF CI]

It's a good job Clive is away in the desert where there's no WiFi.

 

[Widgetone]

It's a good job Clive is away in the desert where there's no WiFi.

Crikey, and I thought he farmed in a benign county?

 

[Devil's advocate]

the relevance of the comment /reply was about spending time with family of which i have done and relished over the years .

how about you ? how have you got on with spending time with wife and children?

please give us a qualified / experienced relevant answer instead of a rude unintelligent one.

I'm not married but enjoy a limited amount of time with my nephews & niece. I shall be seeing them this week.

I enjoy my work & any spare time is put into farm infrastruture.

I still maintain you have issues, with arable farmers.

Seem to remember you making a comment about what a terrible wet winter you've had, but would not care about the weather if you were arable. You need to put a pound in the chip on shoulder box for that one.

 

[Farma Parma]

Yep!
Further muddied by things like SFI paying farmers who use DD.
The problem being that if DD become a disaster once very 5 years as it has this one, that annual payment doesn’t even touch the sides of the loss it has incurred.

I’m thrilled for those that can make it work, but this year really has sorted out where it will always do so and where it will sometimes do so.

A near neighbour of mine went down the Claydon route, but sold his drill last year and went back to 100% ploughing.
He rang me twice yesterday for a chat. The second time, we had both just watched the Harry’s Farm video.
To be fair, he is far from happy with his Heavy land wheat this year, but very pleased with the fact that he ploughed it all.
He also said one thing that could be highly relevant, but I’m not expert to know the answer:

He has used Urea this year, but had some AN left over from last year.
His best looking wheat on his entire fam is where he used up that AN!
Every time he put the Urea on, the crops on his heavy land go backwards first, before the eventually recovering and starts to use it.
He wonders in it is because the land has gone anaerobic?

This is exactly the same as as happened here.

its funny the mention of UREA wasnt as good as AN & i will agree on that as AN works much faster & when climate is against you as it was a year ago & not that much different this year i can tell the same. So staying with AN going forward personally. & a mostly Plough based system still is right here. DD never been even considered.
All crops sown in sept are pretty much fine & survived the 650+ mm of rain since mid Oct last year
The only except was a small field of Oats sown 3days before that rain started.,1/2 of it stood waterlogged for a 4months.
Only one Pass DD that go's on around here is OSR.
Plenty Cultivated land (Non Ploughed) too then be drilled is happening tho.
SUMO,Horsch types of Stubble cultivators and the likes.

 

[Two Tone]

Crikey, and I thought he farmed in a benign county?

He does.
It’s just a different colour of desert sand - Red.

 

[DrWazzock]

Yep!
Further muddied by things like SFI paying farmers who use DD.
The problem being that if DD become a disaster once very 5 years as it has this one, that annual payment doesn’t even touch the sides of the loss it has incurred.

I’m thrilled for those that can make it work, but this year really has sorted out where it will always do so and where it will sometimes do so.

A near neighbour of mine went down the Claydon route, but sold his drill last year and went back to 100% ploughing.
He rang me twice yesterday for a chat. The second time, we had both just watched the Harry’s Farm video.
To be fair, he is far from happy with his Heavy land wheat this year, but very pleased with the fact that he ploughed it all.
He also said one thing that could be highly relevant, but I’m not expert to know the answer:

He has used Urea this year, but had some AN left over from last year.
His best looking wheat on his entire fam is where he used up that AN!
Every time he put the Urea on, the crops on his heavy land go backwards first, before the eventually recovering and starts to use it.
He wonders in it is because the land has gone anaerobic?

This is exactly the same as as happened here.

Interesting. We’ve used urea for the first time this year and have noticed a similar thing. Disappointing to see what looks like some kind of growth check after application on heavy land or it could just be a coincidence with these cold spells we are getting. That brief warm spell we had made things look hopeful. This colder weather has seen crops look a bit yellow again on heavy land. Everything on heavy land here looks fairly sick and thin to be honest and I can’t really see it making up for that now. It’s badly slumped though starting to crack. Low plant population. It’s one of those years. The worst I’ve ever known. Harvest will be a clear up job with the heaviest areas probably needing glypho to even up ripening. Then I think in with the plough and an early start with winter barley. Let’s just get it over with and forget about it!

 

[yellow belly]

Interesting. We’ve used urea for the first time this year and have noticed a similar thing. Disappointing to see what looks like some kind of growth check after application on heavy land or it could just be a coincidence with these cold spells we are getting. That brief warm spell we had made things look hopeful. This colder weather has seen crops look a bit yellow again on heavy land. Everything on heavy land here looks fairly sick and thin to be honest and I can’t really see it making up for that now. It’s badly slumped though starting to crack. Low plant population. It’s one of those years. The worst I’ve ever known. Harvest will be a clear up job with the heaviest areas probably needing glypho to even up ripening. Then I think in with the plough and an early start with winter barley. Let’s just get it over with and forget about it!

urea needs applying earlier but it is less mobile in the soil so is less prone to heavy rain losses
using an inhibitor also delays its availability by up to 2 weeks
this year warm weather in feb march used up all the available n plus heavy wet weather washed n deeper or away

 

[DrWazzock]

urea needs applying earlier but it is less mobile in the soil so is less prone to heavy rain losses
using an inhibitor also delays its availability by up to 2 weeks
this year warm weather in feb march used up all the available n plus heavy wet weather washed n deeper or away

I put more urea on than I was comfortable with before the deadline. I wondered at one time if I’d poisoned the crop. But it seems to rally on warmer days. I’m glad it’s all on now as rainfall looks more nuisance than anything that will actually wash it in.

 

[teslacoils]

AN gives that lovely green boost. But ive never found a bigger heap in the end.
Grass weeds here are shocking.
Absolutely the worst year I have known.

 

[Vader]

AN gives that lovely green boost. But ive never found a bigger heap in the end.
Grass weeds here are shocking.
Absolutely the worst year I have known.

No weeds here, drowned with the crop !!
Got some redrilled this week before the rain today.
P€€ wet again now.