Lost Opportunity

[Charlie.]

Hello,

Both me and my girlfriend are first generation wanbee farmers. We live in rented accommodation on a commercial sheep farm and spend all our free time helping the farmer. Both of us have none agricultural related degree education but really want to start farming. The farmer often describes us as very keen.

For about 2 years now we've been looking out for some land of our own but very little round us comes up for sale. A piece has come up recently which was nearby and reasonably affordable. I was writing our business plan up for the bank last night when I went to check the advert only to find it's sold (STC). Both of us where pretty heartbroken as we'd got pretty excited over this opportunity.

I'm going to speak with the vendor and estate agents on Monday but until we've got some rates confirmed by the bank I'm not in a position to gazump it really.

That's not much anyone can do, but does anyone have any advice on getting started?

I'm guessing have something in place with a bank to allow us to act faster next time? We've both been to the NSA's next generation conferences and while informative and interesting they wasn't anything to prepare you for purchasing your first piece of land. A lot of the attendees seemed to have some form of agricultural background in either education or family ties.

We're in the Todmorden area and anyone who knows the area will know that land is hard to come by. A lot of small farms are sold with equine use in mind (and therefore equine pricing).

Any thoughts?

Charlie

 

[Derrick Hughes]

You will have to move

 

[David.]

I understand the urge to own land, but it is not a pre-requisite of being able to keep some sheep of your own.
Forget the idea of gazumping a pony paddock buyer, and spend your cash on the earning end of the business, ie. the stock.
Is there any chance that the farmer you are helping might be receptive to a joint venture with you?

 

[Muck Spreader]

Why are you so keen to purchase land, wouldn't renting small viable unit be a better first step?

 

[llamedos]

@montydog

 

[Selectamatic]

I was, and am, in a similar situation.

Only though word of mouth and being in the right place at the right time was I able to rent a small piece of land. It's only 6 acres, so wont by any means earn me a living, but I see it as a semi hobby that get's me started.

A piece of land, again a small piece, came for auction earlier this year, I purchased it, paying pretty well the going rate for the area, but in honesty too much money for it to be a viable farming business. I have other plans for that, which I will discuss on TFF in the not too distant future for this piece of land, so I have my reasons.

In the same auction, there was a farm house, farmyard and about 5 acres going for sale, I would have loved it, but simply could not afford it, especially as the house was in a poor state.

What got me all of the above? Word of mouth, luck of being at the right place at the right time, money in the bank, being able to borrow some money with a sensible repayment.

Next step is to effectively start again, and keep looking for the next one to add to what I have.

Dont get downhearted by one place, get your generic business plan drawn up if you think it helps, and keep it in the bottom drawer, then it's ready to wave at someone when the next place comes up. Save up, chin up, keep going.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Dad loaded all he had on a tractor and moved 200 miles West .he didn't have a hope in he'll where he was

 

[kverneland es 80]

ring on monday but don't gazump it,estate agent might have something else coming up,as above invest in stock and grow your asset it will help dealing with a bank in the long run,hope it works out for you

 

[suffolksmallholder]

To be honest your statement, Charlie, re farms being sold with equine use & prices is only fabricated rumor. Land prices are what they are irrespective. Trouble is with small under ten acre plots is that they are in the price range of those who have horses and not big enough for modern farming. All the small plots round here are in the same situation with a gang of hard-nosed horse lady speculators who rapidly bid to £10k then peter out over this sum. Most £ is hubbies £ but hey ho they have it to spend!. Last local land sale went to nearly £20k per acre simply to stop caravan utilising nomadic travellers's and building speculators. This made me smile as the ethics behind the bidding were very sound.
As has been mentioned, renting may be the way forward or you may have to look elsewhere.
If you really do want to buy you'll have to have your business plan and be very focussed as things always cost more than you expect.....
SS

 

[Anonymous...]

We are relatively new to farming ( in our own right ) having grown up in the lakes I moved for work and house affordability , we farm near Tod and I know the land the op is referring to, there's four farmers and a lifestyle changer after it
Fraud it's a case of keep looking and waiting , I didn't think said land would be around for long
As for gazumping, that's a sh!t trick and won't get you far with others farming in the area

 

[RedMerle]

I've spent three years working sheep for people unpaid in return for the experience with dogs and experience for myself.

I'm just about getting to the stage now where people see me as credible and are talking about putting work my way. It's been hard trying to fit in courses etc.

I'm also realistic that even if I sell my house I'm not going to be able to afford to buy hundreds of acres. And you need more than 10 acres to make your millions off sheep.

My current farming enterprise consists of. ... 4 bottle reared calves. Not quite at the bottom of someone else's garden but not far off it.

Please excuse the numerous edits to my post. My phone is on its arse

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I was looking for a small holding to retire to in Sussex but 2 million is way above my budget .I am now buying a lottery ticket and hopping for the best

 

[Charlie.]

Thank you for the quick responses!

You will have to move

I suspect this will be what it ultimately comes down to. Choosing between a town we really love living in or starting a farming career.

Definitely not just interested in buying land! In the 2 years of looking the only piece of land that came up for rent in a reasonable distance was owned by the NT who put too many restrictions on the land use for someone just starting up. It was also a good 25 minute drive and no buildings so just not suitable.

The farmer has a good system that works well for him, I doubt (well know) he'd want to change it. He's helping us train our first sheep dog, or should I say training us to train a sheep dog!!

We've got some good savings already so will keep adding to them. I think a business plan and skeleton financial projects would be useful to speed up any future credit applications.

 

[nick...]

I wish you the very best of luck
Nick...

 

[Jim75]

You need to know the right people as land does come up just not openly.
If you consider 25 mins a trek you're going to be dissapointed. I have to travel 20 minutes just to the next village/civilisation/any chance of work and up to an hr for helping the right people. Forget the gazumping as youll do yourself no favours before you even start.
Good luck there's opportunities out there you just need to sniff them out.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Thank you for the quick responses!



I suspect this will be what it ultimately comes down to. Choosing between a town we really love living in or starting a farming career.

Definitely not just interested in buying land! In the 2 years of looking the only piece of land that came up for rent in a reasonable distance was owned by the NT who put too many restrictions on the land use for someone just starting up. It was also a good 25 minute drive and no buildings so just not suitable.

The farmer has a good system that works well for him, I doubt (well know) he'd want to change it. He's helping us train our first sheep dog, or should I say training us to train a sheep dog!!

We've got some good savings already so will keep adding to them. I think a business plan and skeleton financial projects would be useful to speed up any future credit applications.

In this part of West Wales land will become more freely available to buy and rent .I know guys who failed to rent their farms out this year due to the downturn in the dairy industry . As SFP dries up they will have to decide what they want to do.they may well decide to throw in the towel and sell up . We don't get city investors pushing up the price of land like they do in Southern England , what I am trying to say is for any youngsters looking to get into farming just keep an eye on what's going on in West Wales

 

[S J H]

I understand the urge to own land, but it is not a pre-requisite of being able to keep some sheep of your own.
Forget the idea of gazumping a pony paddock buyer, and spend your cash on the earning end of the business, ie. the stock.
Is there any chance that the farmer you are helping might be receptive to a joint venture with you?

I'd fully agree with this.

I've said on here before that I'd have probably been better off buying a house with a small piece of land, only for storage and a sick ewe etc, then renting more ground and buying more sheep.

 

[Princess Pooper]

In some parts of the country there are lots of opportunities to rent parcels of land. e.g. in Notts I know a sheep farmer who has to turn down offers of low rental grassland as he has too much land available. This is usually owned by horsey people with too much land or arable farmers with a bit of river meadow or similar that they cannot plough up and they do not want a sheep enterprise as it is a cross compliance liability. You will be better off putting your money into expanding a flock than buying land early in your career.

 

[Kidds]

Speak to the local estate agents and tell them you are looking. For some completely bizarre reason they do seem to keep some available land a secret.

 

[RedMerle]

Speak to the local estate agents and tell them you are looking. For some completely bizarre reason they do seem to keep some available land a secret.

And also they don't seem the quickest at updating sold status's on websites