Lucerne for sheep

[balerman]

I PM’ed you Jerry.

Roundup in the winter is the best herbicide to give a clean crop for the year ahead. Personally I’d go with red clover as there is a lot more choice with varieties, neighbours RC ley is romping on yet every field beside it is dying off from drought

Yep,having done both red clover is far easier to manage and will do a similar job.

 

[betweenthelines]

IBERS Legumes and Fertility Review

Permanent infertility
When ewes are exposed to high oestrogen red clover for prolonged periods permanent
infertility may occur. Clover infertility results in permanent damage to the reproductive tract
which becomes worse with each year‟s exposure to oestrogenic pastures .The oestrogen affects the structure of the cervix and sperm transport and conception
rates are reduced (Lightfoot et al., 1973). There are often no visual signs that ewes are
suffering from permanent infertility as ovarian function remains normal and ewes will show
normal oestrous cycles (Adams, 1995). The lack of visual signs means that the condition
often goes unnoticed and it is estimated that in Australia 1 million ewes may be affected and
that, on average, affected flocks have around a 10% increase in non-pregnant ewes
(Adams, 1990). Diagnosis of the problem is difficult and depends primarily on detection of
pathological changes in the cervix, which is normally identified on material collected from
ewes at abattoirs, rather than history or clinical signs.
Temporary infertility
Ewes fed high oestrogen red clover may suffer temporary infertility that will normally resolve
within one month after cessation of grazing (Adams 1995). As in permanent infertility, ewes
will exhibit normal oestrus cycles, although some breeds of ewe develop swelling of the
vulva and development of the mammary glands. Some breeds have a tendency to exhibit
visual signs more frequently than others but absence of visual signs is common in certain
breeds (e.g., Merino ewes) (Adams, 1995). An accurate diagnosis of temporary infertility
depends on the oestrogen concentration in the pasture at the time the sheep are being
mated (Adams, 1995).

Just a couple of observations on the above (no axe to grind)

I would suspect that the research was done in Australia were RC growth would be a lot stronger at time of mating.

Why are only 10% of the flock affected. To me this would suggest that there are other factors at work such as genetic disposition, in a similar way to several human diseases

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Just a couple of observations on the above (no axe to grind)

I would suspect that the research was done in Australia were RC growth would be a lot stronger at time of mating.

Why are only 10% of the flock affected. To me this would suggest that there are other factors at work such as genetic disposition, in a similar way to several human diseases

About this project

The Problem:
A major barrier to the uptake of legumes is the concern about impacts on fertility.

Project Aims:

To identify and critique the original source material about red clover and ewe fertility

To review all available literature on red and white clover, lucerne, lupins and other agricultural important legumes and the impact on ewes, rams, cows and bulls

To provide guidelines to beef and sheep producers on the use of legumes within their systems, with particular focus to replacement breeding stock

To identify gaps in knowledge and highlight where new research may be needed


Approach:
A review of literature relating to legumes and their impact onfertility will be undertaken.

Results:
The literature review showed that there are many different types and also different concentrations of these oestrogen-mimicking compounds present in a range of forage legumes. The concentration of phyto-oestrogens is affected by genetic and many different environmental factors, which may have led to contrary anecdotal evidence as to the effects of legumes per se on ruminant fertility. This, in turn, has resulted in many contradictory farmer guidelines, based on reports from many different countries, on the effects of forage legumes on ruminant fertility.
From the current literature and current guidelines based on work from the UK and abroad, it is currently not possible to extend and provide further clear guidance to UK farmers on the effective use of forage legumes whilst guaranteeing to protect the fertility status of their livestock. Hence, the key industry message – to avoid grazing red clover and other forage legumes prior to and during mating – should remain unchanged until further research is completed.

 

[betweenthelines]

So, in simple terms, the research is inconclusive.

 

[2wheels]

just use white clover instead, worked for us.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

just use white clover instead, worked for us.

Yes and will take hard grazing if small leaved .
Red clover is fantastic for fatening lambs and makes excellent silage . But can't see it has much of a place for sheep grazing leys and why take the risk when you have alternatives

 

[Al R]

Yes and will take hard grazing if small leaved .
Red clover is fantastic for fatening lambs and makes excellent silage . But can't see it has much of a place for sheep grazing leys and why take the risk when you have alternatives

Far better in a drought as the roots go deeper and their bigger rooted.
But yes white is ideal but if someone wanted protein bales like Lucerne then RC is a better alternative than Lucerne. Btw I wouldn’t feed RC in a shed to ewes, did some a few years ago, double the intake, 3 times the straw useage and I’ve never seen 100 ewes all sh!t like a Holstein before.

 

[Flat 10]

Planted some last autumn for the first time and despite a good stale seed bed and then just blowing the seed on the top I had to right most of it off as it was so weedy. I am trying again this autumn but including red clover, cocksfoot & festuloliums. As a plant it ticks so many boxes and has real potential it’s just getting it going which is the hard part!

I would mix timothy as less competitive. To the OP if you don't include grasses i have a vague recollection kerb can be used as a herbicide but please check first!

 

[Bury the Trash]

Yes i have done .they love the stuff in anyform, its a bit different to start with and seems to be very palatable to them either fresh grazed or conserved.
difficult to conserve though i preferred grazing getting the best variety most suited to that is the challenge imo.
but check your geology /soil type https://www.devon.gov.uk/geology/devons-rocks-a-geological-guide/as its not suitable everywhere even if its well drained. I grew it on some sandstone type ground that we have a bit of... but
look up /search what Global ovine has written on the subject .

 

[andybk]

Yes i have done .they love the stuff in anyform, its a bit different to start with and seems to be very palatable to them either fresh grazed or conserved.
difficult to conserve though i preferred grazing getting the best variety most suited to that is the challenge imo.
but check your geology /soil type https://www.devon.gov.uk/geology/devons-rocks-a-geological-guide/as its not suitable everywhere even if its well drained. I grew it on some sandstone type ground that we have a bit of... but
look up /search what Global ovine has written on the subject .

many issues with bloat and grazing lambs in summer ?

 

[Bury the Trash]

many issues with bloat and grazing lambs in summer ?

no.
... just got to watch a bit for clostridials pulpy kid .etc vaccinate lambs to be safest, as its rocket fuel and i suppose the bottom is more open to the ground than a grass sward.