sep
Member
- Location
- scotland east
the rep has a second hand mobile base station he thinks I need
what do I need to know about it
thanks for all help or advice
what do I need to know about it
thanks for all help or advice
mobile base station
- Thread starter sep
- Start date
croppers
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders
Sep I think you might have to give the Precision fraternity on here a bit more information such as current setup, brand, why you/rep thinks you need a mobile base or accurate GPS signal rather than just have it as an expensive paper weight
Just my opinion
Just my opinion
sep
Member
- Location
- scotland east
thanks we are starting the grain drill on gps so we can rent signal at £800-£900 per year or look at buying the trimble base station
croppers
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders
So you have narrowed it down to trimble, what do you currently use on the tractor that pulls the drill, are you steering the drill or steering the tractor that pulls the drill, think it's called true tracker (?) please explain a bit more about what you currently have or use, I'm sure someone with more knowledge about trimble than me will be along soon
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Where does your current RTK signal come from? Dealer's own mast?
I might be wrong, but I can see RTK prices falling before too long as more and more people get their own base stations so you'll be able to rent signal from neighbours for less and less each year.
I might be wrong, but I can see RTK prices falling before too long as more and more people get their own base stations so you'll be able to rent signal from neighbours for less and less each year.
sep
Member
- Location
- scotland east
at moment we have a very poor signal because of area we are in. the tractor will be in charge.
. we are just starting out so it is all bewildering
. we are just starting out so it is all bewildering
Signal? Mobile signal? Most non RTK correction signals are satellite based. If you don't have satellite GPS signal then autosteer isn't going to be much good!
Have a good look through this forum before you open your wallet. There's lots of waffle but lots of good information too. Some of the main hardware suppliers are members too. Trimble @AS_Comms Topcon @Robt Soil Essentials @Robert Ramsay John Deere @CPP plus a few others.
Have a good look through this forum before you open your wallet. There's lots of waffle but lots of good information too. Some of the main hardware suppliers are members too. Trimble @AS_Comms Topcon @Robt Soil Essentials @Robert Ramsay John Deere @CPP plus a few others.
Robert Ramsay
Member
- Location
- Angus, Scotland
Hi Sep, it does sound like you might be being led down a garden path. We (SoilEssentials) would be delighted to help you (or at least talk) There are signals that are cheaper and it is worth talking to more than 1 supplier to get yourself up to speed before taking the plunge.
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
If you haven't bought anything yet, then I'd start small (and cheap!) and then trade up from there if you think you need it.
I and many others are using Trimble Rangepoint RTX (note, not RTK!) for drilling set at 4m on a 4m drill. Works brilliantly, and I really can't fault it. Upgrades are £3000 cheaper than full RTK, and the signal costs £250 a year rather than £800. Only downside is no repeatability (it drifts a little if you come back to the same field next day). £650/year saving on the signal soon adds up.
I and many others are using Trimble Rangepoint RTX (note, not RTK!) for drilling set at 4m on a 4m drill. Works brilliantly, and I really can't fault it. Upgrades are £3000 cheaper than full RTK, and the signal costs £250 a year rather than £800. Only downside is no repeatability (it drifts a little if you come back to the same field next day). £650/year saving on the signal soon adds up.
Pheasant Surprise
Member
- Location
- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Re RTK and running your own base the cost is coming down albeit slowly. It is possible to buy a brand new mobile RTK base for less than £6,000. This should give you plenty of (radio) range on your home farm and no need for an OFCOM licence. If you need further range, up to 40 or 50 kilometres depending on your terrain, mast height etc, then it is possible to convert a mobile base into a "fixed" base by buying a more powerful radio, up to 35W maximum (anywhere between £1,500 and £2,500), and an external UHF antenna (about £150) and an external satellite antenna for the base (about £1200). You also need a tall shed, mast or pole to mount the UHF antenna as high as possible for the best range.
Of course you can always 'rent' your signal out to neighbours too, to recoup some of your investment.
Northern farmer
Member
- Location
- North
I know many members of this forum use Rangepoint RTX for drilling. Then again some use basic EGNOS and claim it works well. I'm just puzzled about this because Trimble themselves do not seem to qualify Rangepoint RTK for drilling:
http://agriculture.newholland.com/us/en/PLM/Documents/PLM_NH36145283.pdf
Northern farmer
Member
- Location
- North
Depending on cellphone coverage one could use a much cheaper option for NTRIP over cellular instead of a high power radio. I did it at some 150 Euros (a second hand laptop running Linux and an NTRIP caster).
Northern farmer
Member
- Location
- North
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Like a lot of things, manufacturers won't stand by things they aren't 100% sure of. I specc'd my system for Omni to start with and paid for the upgrade as Rangepoint didn't exist at that stage. My dealer told me about it later and suggested I try it as others have had good experiences and it was free for the first year anyway so I could try it and then upgrade later if I needed. I tried it, was more impressed than I expected to me and so have stuck with it. It's more than adequate for my needs. Anyone if welcome to come and take a look.
Pheasant surprise, that's not quite true re in field base station range.
Approx 2k and line of sight is needed. You can bodge it to a building and bodge a radio to increase range but it's just that, a bodge.
SEP, pm me your details or ring me to discuss all options
07788292441
Approx 2k and line of sight is needed. You can bodge it to a building and bodge a radio to increase range but it's just that, a bodge.
SEP, pm me your details or ring me to discuss all options
07788292441
Pheasant Surprise
Member
- Location
- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Why would upgrading a mobile base to a fixed base in that way be a bodge Rob?
A mobile base, is designed to be a portable unit to run off 12v battery or internal rechargeable battery.
A fixed base, installed by us or as comms etc is very different. We sort out the OfCom licence, design and build it to me the regulations of said OfCom licence. It's designed to run off mains 240 volts with back up during power cuts etc...
Sorry for rant but mobile base are excellent when used in the mobile situations. Fixed bases are excellent when needing to reach 25k etc...
I've seen a bodges base and it was awful and operating without licence thus breaking all OfCom rules and will only cause OfCom to be more strict in future if they come across this situation again. Sort of working.... And working perfectly are very different statements!
A fixed base, installed by us or as comms etc is very different. We sort out the OfCom licence, design and build it to me the regulations of said OfCom licence. It's designed to run off mains 240 volts with back up during power cuts etc...
Sorry for rant but mobile base are excellent when used in the mobile situations. Fixed bases are excellent when needing to reach 25k etc...
I've seen a bodges base and it was awful and operating without licence thus breaking all OfCom rules and will only cause OfCom to be more strict in future if they come across this situation again. Sort of working.... And working perfectly are very different statements!
Pheasant Surprise
Member
- Location
- Woodbridge, Suffolk
I'm in the process of building my own mobile and putting in place building blocks for a (future) fixed RTK base. Insofar as you can give advice on a public forum, I'd appreciate if you think there is anything wrong in my thinking or approach. I don't think there is anything bodgy or dodgy here, but always willing to listen and learn.
Licensing. Wouldn't ever contemplate (illegally) running a high-power fixed based without an Ofcom license. An Ofcom license is quite straightforward to do (did it online). In my experience Ofcom are approachable if your are clear with what frequency(ies) and channel(s) you require. It cost me £75 a year for a single 12.5kHz channel for a Business Radio Area Defined Licence in the UHF2 band. Anything above 1 W needs a licence. I found the trickiest part in all this was finding out and then matching and getting an overlapping frequency allocation with RTK receiver/rover and the base radio. Manufacturers don't necessarily give that information out readliy. Didn't really have a problem then getting that desired base frequency in that range allocated and licensed with Ofcom though.
Radio and UHF antenna. On my area defined licence there is an ERP power restriction of 50 W, with no antenna height restriction. I propose to use an approved and well known radio like Satel or Pac Crest. The SATELLINE EASyPro 35W is looking to be the one I'll use. Then a base frequency matched 3 dBd collinear omni-directional antenna (see example attached from Radio Structures with 3 year warranty). Programming the radio at a slightly lower 25 W output with the 3dBd omni antenna I should be within the overall output power of Ofcom licensing regs at 49.88 W. Could probably up that slightly to take into account cable/connector loss. Planning to use a decent grade of coaxial cable like RG213 from radio to antenna to minimise signal loss/attenuation.
GNSS receiver. Is there technically any reason why its not possible to use something like a Topcon HiPer V as both a mobile and fixed base receiver? All the ports are there, external antenna, power supply etc. Plenty of channels, supports dual constellations and dual frequencies, has adequate H & V accuracy. Use an permanent external power supply for fixed base use and internal battery as mobile base. Hook up a decent fence-type GNSS antenna. What's not to like.
Power Supply. A permanent 240V to 12V switching power supply can be added to the base. Needs to be about 150-200 watts output I reckon but I'll be double checking the specs of radio and receiver. UPS/battery backup not really that difficult, could use something like an APC/Schneider unit from Amazon and tuck it away in a waterproof but vented enclosure. Most of our supply cuts last up to an hour or so and we have diesel backup anyway. Serial interface cables with ODU connectors can be bought or made up easily enough if you know where to look.
Enclosure. IP6X weatherproof cabinets (am using a schneider electric one) from RS components or electrical wholesaler.
GNSS Antenna. Last but not least fixed GNSS antenna, mounted in a reasonably high, stable, but non-shaded position, that is immovable as possible. Fence type dual constellation and frequency antenna for best reception and reasonable price/performance. Connect using RG58 cabling, try and keep distance to receiver as short as possible.
Masts. Ive not really covered masts, but if you use a lattice mast or a modular tilting column, the likes from Altron or Radio Structures at 15m+ that to me that is a decently well engineered solution.
Have been chatting to lots of people over the last 6-12 months. There are lots of helpful guides and tools out there which help, e.g.
Pacific Crest, Guide to Wireless Data Links: http://www.pacificcrest.com/library/BRO_Guide_Wireless_Data_Links.pdf
PCC range estimator tool: http://pacificcrest.com/resources.php?page=range_estimator
ERP/EIRP converter: http://www.satcomresources.com/ERP-EIRP-Converter
(By the way thanks for the offer of an RTK signal, but the one of the reasons I'm building my own base is to have control of my own signal and not have any annual subscription charges)