Net-Zero and livestock farming

[steveR]

Some farmers I have spoken to are advocating for it, carrying out 'audits' and linking it to the products they are direct selling, labelling it a net-zero beef etc. which they say helps them stand out. Others say trying to become net zero/ trying to farm in more environmentally sustainable manners is economically beneficial. I'm sure more will have other reasons, early days with the project

You raise some points I am thinking about too, what exactly is the point of becoming net zero? what are the benefits of achieving this status? Why should farmers implement strategies to achieve this status?

Much of the existing schemes and the ELMs are being rolled out are aimed at reducing emissions anyway (and other important issues, its not just about emissions), and if more farmers move to these schemes following subsidy loss then more will be engaging in activities aimed at reducing GHG for the sector.

Like many a Farmer, I am questioing just what ELMS is all about actually... Fantasy stuff mostly, certainly the earlier versions of ELMS were.

There are numerous threads here regarding whether SFI is actually going to be worth entering at all... For some, a switch to out and out production might be a better business model, rather than engaging with the Govt agencies and underfunded schemes with all the hassles that entail!

In the short term, pasture land is being ploughed up, and in my particular case, old "set aside" land will be ploughed and brought back into production this Summer, as will and suitable grassland areas to increase productivity with the loss of BPS. Prior to the loss, I was content to see a few acres as varied habitat.

I will take "net zero" as serious, when I see the use of oil curtailed, and no I am not an advocate for ER or Stop the Oil, I just cannot stand the hypocrisy within Govt. Jump on a plane to Mexico? "No problem, we will plant a tree to offset the carbon..."

 

[topground]

If I took part where would the data on my farm end up? Data has a value.
How is a suckler cow subsisting on forage, either grazed or conserved, mainly hay so less plastic calculated to contribute toward carbon capture.
CO2 is captured through photosynthesis by grass using rain and sunshine. The cow turns that grass into a nutrient dense food and produces manure which contains carbon that is incorporated into the so CO2 is captured for free.
Unless there are meaningful figures avaIlable what is the point?

 

[Nithsdale]

It's bulls**t designed to destroy agriculture.

The sooner food shortages become real and the fvckwits in power realise they need us, the better.

 

[petergittins]

Good point about the data use. It is academic research, the data would be annomized, interviews, recorded and then transcribed. It will then be analysed and written up to create an output- which I envision to be a policy brief (couple of page document highlighting the key messages from farmers) and an academic article that will be published in a academic journal.
The outputs will be sent to all those taking part and would be publicly available.

 

[The Seeker]

They can have all my sheep tbh , just as long as I receive income forgone as they claim they are offering …. Which isn’t income forgone at all. If they really really want the livestock gone why not just pay up ? There message is so odd from start to finish

 

[Ffermer Bach]

so, what is your research question?

 

[Ffermer Bach]

You must have a research question, I am sure whoever is paying for the research, hasn't said, just go out and find out stuff about attitudes to net zero!

 

[petergittins]

what is your research project, who is it fund by and for? And most importantly what is your research question?

Internal funding from the university, though I’ll likely go for some larger external funding in the future from one of the larger funders

The project is about supporting livestock farmers in adapting to ELMs and pressures to become net-zero, hence my interest in exploring current views around current environmental legislation.

I am in the business school and research in the area of entrepreneurship in the agricultural sector. It is an exploratory project looking at the role entrepreneurship has in delivering these environmental goals (ie., reducing farm inputs, renewable energy diversification, serving local markets etc).

so I’d like to talk to farmers about their businesses, their management practices and farm activities. I think it’s a good opportunity to air current concerns around the rollout of such schemes

 

[petergittins]

No, not used any of the tool kits yet, as @Highland Mule mules says, there are too many models and none, as yet, seem to hold much value.

All the things above I mentioned are done, not for net zero reasons, rather just for good business reasons, to help my farm business thrive.

End of the day it is good old fashioned mixed farming, that certain areas like a lot of Devon, are perfectly suited to.

Yeah, there’s lots about all with different features all promising different things.

I do wonder how many farms are already net zero

 

[ringi]

Sign up as a member of https://www.pastureforlife.org/ as they have people who care about net zero and understand how livestock farming solves environmental problems.

 

[Jerry]

Yeah, there’s lots about all with different features all promising different things.

I do wonder how many farms are already net zero

If you are in the area I would be happy to show you what I do and have a chat, I am in Devon but it is a lowland farm, not on Exmoor.

I think it is key that people outside agri understand what is happening a grass roots level, and indeed what steps farmers are already taking to look at their business and adapt to the current situations.

 

[petergittins]

If you are in the area I would be happy to show you what I do and have a chat, I am in Devon but it is a lowland farm, not on Exmoor.

I think it is key that people outside agri understand what is happening a grass roots level, and indeed what steps farmers are already taking to look at their business and adapt to the current situations.

Thanks a lot, Jerry. Thanks for the support.

I'll take you up on that offer when I'm down doing my interviews in Exmoor.

If you could drop me an email [email protected] or DM on here then I can let you know nearer the time when I am headed that way

 

[DaveGrohl]

Yeah, there’s lots about all with different features all promising different things.

I do wonder how many farms are already net zero

How do you define net zero though? That’s the biggest unanswered elephant-in-the-room question. And does your definition actually stand up to scrutiny? Or is it as transparently ridiculous as virtually all the rest? The fact you're talking about emissions and not warming impact tells a story for a start. Emissions is a mindless proxy term which pales to nothing next to warming impact. Emissions is virtually meaningless when it comes to methane.

As far as carbon calculators are concerned, you might want to have a look at this;

Farming Matters: Geoff Pickering - 'Net zero calculations are nonsense'

I was recently ‘cancelled’ on Twitter for using the word ’nonsense’ in relation to net zero.

www.fginsight.com

I’m happy to have a chat with you btw. I’m all for education. We need more of it. Also, can you answer the question of why is the carbon which is absorbed from the atmosphere and leaves the farm not allowed to be credited to that farm for net zero calculations?

 

[CornishTone]

We are part of the Farm Net Zero Project in Cornwall and we’ve been measured as carbon negative for 2 years in a row by the Farm Carbon Toolkit, on an mixed arable and sheep system.

FCT is the only model that properly accounts for sequestration in pasture, woodland, hedgerows etc and they actually dig holes and properly measure soil organic carbon instead of using phoney modelling! And under GWP* we’d be even more carbon negative!

Have we actively farmed to be net zero? No, it s just a by-product of the way we’ve been doing things already, hence why we are seemingly carbon negative in years 1 and 2.

I do direct sell our lamb and have used it in marketing but, my customers seem more interested in the way it tastes and the way it’s produced, although it is seen as a plus point it could hold a premium.

The few lambs that go to Jaspers get no premium for it obviously, but in time I fear that talk of a premium for net zero products will actually translate into a barrier to market, the same as Red Tractor

 

[delilah]

The project is about supporting livestock farmers in adapting to ELMs and pressures to become net-zero, hence my interest in exploring current views around current environmental legislation.

so, what is your research question?

Yes. What is the starting point ?

Is the research question 'What are livestock farmers doing to make themselves net-zero ?' or is it 'Do livestock farmers need to do anything with regards net-zero ?'

Because that is two very different questions.

 

[DaveGrohl]

We are part of the Farm Net Zero Project in Cornwall and we’ve been measured as carbon positive for 2 years in a row by the Far Carbon Toolkit, on an mixed arable and sheep system.

FCT is the only model that properly accounts for sequestration in pasture, woodland, hedgerows etc and they actually dig holes and properly measure soil organic carbon instead of using phoney modelling! And under GWP* we’d be even more carbon positive!

Have we actively farmed to be net zero? No, it s just a by-product of the way we’ve been doing things already, hence why we are seemingly carbon positive in years 1 and 2.

I do direct sell our lamb and have used it in marketing but, my customers seem more interested in the way it tastes and the way it’s produced, although it is seen as a plus point it could hold a premium.

The few lambs that go to Jaspers get no premium for it obviously, but in time I fear that talk of a premium for net zero products will actually translate into a barrier to market, the same as Red Tractor.

Bang on the money. Yet another triumph of stupidity over reason for the NFU.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

FCCT result for our suckler business 2 years ago...

Carbon negative. Without all the subterfuge about "net" anything....

View attachment Ian Davis 02 Dec 2021revised 4-12-21.pdf

 

[Henarar]

Hello everyone, **not spamming but was suggested to move to this thread**

I wondered if anyone had any contacts for livestock farmers in England who are actively trying to achieve 'net zero' in their farming business. I'd like to chat with them about what they think the benefits are in doing this, what are the barriers, and how their business practices align with supporting government environmental ambitions. I'd also like to speak with farmers who are critical of net-zero and new environmental legislation- tbh on our farm we are not actively doing anything to meet net-zero, other than compliance with schemes but I know this varies around the country.

This is part of a research project I am working on at Leeds university. We are putting together a brief highlighting current farmer views and concerns. So your input could feed into policymaking. It would be great to arrange some interviews with those interested so I could formally collect some data and air farmer views and concerns.

Yorkshire, Cumbria and Exmoor regions are the areas under study but we would still welcome views from those further afield.

Kind regards,
Peter.
[email protected]

I would have thought we were net zero
We keep sucker cows and sheep on PP on the Blackdown hills in Somerset.
As of last year use no fert,
Yes we buy in and burn some diesel so some warming emissions there
We also buy in some plastic but it goes for recycling so no warming emissions there.
Our grass takes in carbon which the cows and sheep then take in and when the cattle and sheep leave here they take that carbon with them as they are made of it and only released when SOMEONE ELSE EATS THEM, so negative warming emissions there.
I am not interested in emissions from the cattle and sheep themselves as they are not warming emissions.
So that just leaves emissions from diesel burning and sequestion from what the grass takes in and the livestock take off farm and in my rough fag packet calculations tell me that one would make up for the other,

So in concussion I [as in my business] am all wright Jack and as its not to good to ask a question of someone else that you will not answer yourself how do you think your business/work/the university comes out when it comes to net zero ?

 

[ringi]

I try to advoid buying anything that is sold as "net zero" because I think of net zero as being companies planting trees so as to enable more "guilt free" air travel by other companies who are pretending to care.

 

[Henarar]

I try to advoid buying anything that is sold as "net zero" because I think of net zero as being companies planting trees so as to enable more "guilt free" air travel by other companies who are pretending to care.

Yes, why should we spend money to prove if we are net zero or not when folk still burn fuel for nothing else but fun but this seems to be ok, makes no sense