New government firearms consultation following the Plymouth shooting

[holwellcourtfarm]

The Home Office have just launched a new consultation on proposed changes to firearms law. It contains some very significant changes so all of us who hold firearms should respond.

Firearms licensing: a consultation on recommendations for changes made to the Home Office (accessible)

www.gov.uk

Amongst the key proposals are:

• A new statutory power for the police to search a certificate holder’s home enabling immediate seizure of firearms, shotguns and ammunition.
• Updating the mandatory prohibitions that automatically prevent someone from having a certificate.
• Reviewing the length of time that a certificate is granted, which is currently for five years (suggestion is every 2 years)
• Full cost recovery for licencing (likely to mean raising renewal cost to around £500)
• Changes to referee rules (requirement for referees to be of "high social standing" like the old counter-signatories were, essentially a doctor, lawyer, MP , senior civil servant etc)

Clearly, some police FLUs are incapable of implementing the current rules effectively as seen repeatedly behind tragic events like that in Plymouth. That's an issue of resources and training though, not inadequate legislation IMHO.

If you don't have your say, don't complain when the rules change to your great disadvantage!

Full list of questions :

Annex A: How to respond to this consultation​

We would welcome responses to the following questions which are discussed earlier in this paper.

Recommendations relating to changes to legislation​

(a) A power of immediate seizure of firearms, shotguns and ammunition​

Q1. Do you consider that the police should be granted a specific power of entry (without a warrant issued by a magistrate or sheriff) to be able to seize shotguns, firearms and ammunition where there is a risk to public safety or the peace and the certificate holder does not cooperate with the police and agree to voluntary surrender?

Yes

No

(b) Mandatory prohibitions​

Q2. Do you consider that the prohibition on possessing firearms should be changed from one that is based solely on length of a custodial sentence following conviction, to one based more on the nature of the offence?

Yes

No

(c) Length of certificate before renewal required​

Q3. Do you consider that the renewal period (currently every five years) for a certificate should be kept under review? If so, is renewal every five years the right period of time or should it be changed to a shorter or longer period of time?

Yes

No

Length of certificate before renewal​

5 years (the current period)

Less than 5 years

More than 5 years

Recommendations relating to referees​

Q4. Do you consider that people applying for shotgun certificates should provide two referees?

Yes

No

Q5. Do you consider that at least one of the referees should be a person of certain standing in the community (e.g. of a professional background)? This could include public officials (both elected and Civil Servants or Local Government officers), members of a regulated profession (including doctors, nurses, solicitors, barristers, accountants and FCA regulated finance professionals), officers of registered shooting clubs, National Farmers’ Union representatives, landlords, land managers, vets or surveyors.

Yes

No

Q6. Do you consider that referees should be able to demonstrate a good knowledge of the applicant’s circumstances, relevant to their suitability to possess a firearm or shotgun?

Yes

No

Q7. Do you consider that the application form should include a checklist for referees on the information that they should provide to the police, and require referees to provide a written declaration that they have disclosed all relevant facts to the police?

Yes

No

Q8. Do you consider that the Statutory Guidance should include more detailed guidance for the police on the information they should be looking to elicit from referees?

Yes

No

Q9. Do you consider that the police should look at the circumstances when individuals change referees between application and renewal, and between subsequent renewals?

Yes

No

Q10. Do you consider that the sharing of the unique application reference number by the applicant with their referees would make it easier for referees to report concerns they have about applicants to the police, or to decline to give references, or, for those who give references but subsequently become concerned that the applicant may no longer be suitable to have access to a firearm or shotgun, to report this later to the police.

Yes

No

Other recommendations​

Q11. Do you consider that the content in the Statutory Guidance should be expanded and made more prescriptive in relation to the suitability checks carried out by the police for firearm and shotgun applicants and certificate holders?

Yes

No

Q12. Do you consider that the balance of probabilities test is the correct test to apply in the Statutory Guidance to information about a person’s suitability to hold a certificate? This is the test that the police have been using for many years and is applied in weighing the evidence and information in any individual case.

Yes

No

Q13. Do you consider that neurodevelopmental disorders should be added to the list of relevant medical conditions in the Statutory Guidance (and application form)?

Yes

No

Q14. Do you consider that GPs’ engagement with the firearms licensing process should be made mandatory?

Yes

No

Q15. Do you consider that interim medical checks should be made on licensed firearms holders between the grant of the certificate and any application to renew?

Yes

No

Q16. Do you consider that the digital marker for use by GPs on the medical records of licensed firearms holders should be visible to other health professionals?

Yes

No

Q17. Do you consider there should be more mental health advice and support for licensed firearms holders through, for example, advice leaflets and other such support?

Yes

No

Q18. Do you consider a specific phoneline should be introduced in addition to the services already available to report concerns about a licensed firearms holder?

Yes

No

Q19. How in principle should any specific phoneline be funded?

Public funding

Other source of funding

Q20. Do you consider that it would be better to raise awareness of existing avenues open to raise concerns about a licensed firearms holder (999, 101, Crimestoppers, force firearms licensing contacts) than create a new phoneline service?

Yes

No

If you have any comments on the subject matter of this consultation, please enter below.

 

[Still Farming]

Thanks for this.
Out of interest those statistics of offences with firearms, how many were legal certificated holders???

 

[Badshot]

It won't matter how hard they make legally owning a gun, there will always be the underground gun circles for them to be got from.
The number of instances a legal gun has been used for crime is pretty small I'd think compared to the illegal ones.

 

[EJS]

Have done survey.
Very uncomfortable about a search not requiring a warrant if you are a gun owner - why should the usual procedures not apply - the stats do not suggest that legal gun owners pose a high risk at all - surely if there were concerns a warrant could be done quickly anyway?

 

[Bury the Trash]

Thanks for this.
Out of interest those statistics of offences with firearms, how many were legal certificated holders???

Surely in theory there shouldn't be any caused by legally certified holders .

This tragic case was .

none of the qualifying criteria should be a problem, apart from maybe a (particularly modest sized ) farmer with livestock that might need dispatching , is the extra cost .

 

[jondear]

The Plymouth case was a tragic mistake handing back a gun to someone who has made violent threats.!

 

[Deereone]

The survey will become purely academic as it is becoming increasingly hard to get hold of some ammunition. I've had some on order since October!

 

[Kentishfarmer]

The problem isn't the legislation, its that the police don't have enough resources allocated to properly enforce or check the current regulations.
It was over 8 weeks for my renewal to come through and I'm a very straightforward case of no relevant medical issues, >15years as a licence holder & exclusive shooting over 00s acres. I dread to think how long it would take if there were medical complications and questions why you need a licence to dig into

 

[davidroberts30]

The problem isn't the legislation, its that the police don't have enough resources allocated to properly enforce or check the current regulations.
It was over 8 weeks for my renewal to come through and I'm a very straightforward case of no relevant medical issues, >15years as a licence holder & exclusive shooting over 00s acres. I dread to think how long it would take if there were medical complications and questions why you need a licence to dig into

Im at 12 months waiting for the renewal!!

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Thanks for this.
Out of interest those statistics of offences with firearms, how many were legal certificated holders???

Table 5 quoted above gives figures for the last 10 years for homicides.

Averages out a as:

Licenced 12%
Unlicensed 75%
Unknown 13%


I strongly suspect that for all crime the ratio of licensed will be much lower.

 

[Kidds]

Not sure what determines how quickly each force processes renewals but in Cheshire, and Manchester I believe, renewals in my experience take about 3 weeks.
Variations take about 3 days.
I suspect it has more to do with competence than funding. On a similar note the current rules are adequate it was the incompetence of the Plymouth police that was the issue, no amount of new rules will cure that.

 

[Still Farming]

Not sure what determines how quickly each force processes renewals but in Cheshire, and Manchester I believe, renewals in my experience take about 3 weeks.
Variations take about 3 days.
I suspect it has more to do with competence than funding. On a similar note the current rules are adequate it was the incompetence of the Plymouth police that was the issue, no amount of new rules will cure that.

 

[Still Farming]

6 months more like it, and telephone interrogation, makes you feel terrible?

 

[jondear]

Mines in now for renewal now at least 10 wks till expired.Held for more than 10 years !
And yet might have to issue a temporary licence as might not be processed in time .
Devon & Cornwall are severely under staffed I should think.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

the current rules are adequate it was the incompetence of the Plymouth police that was the issue, no amount of new rules will cure that.

This is a regular pattern in modern political life though, isn't it?

Social impacts occur from failure to fully follow current regulations so, rather than rectify the causes (often lack of adequate resource combined with management competency shortfalls) politicians just add more regulation.

Utterly pointless.

 

[EJS]

This is a regular pattern in modern political life though, isn't it?

Social impacts occur from failure to fully follow current regulations so, rather than rectify the causes (often lack of adequate resource combined with management competency shortfalls) politicians just add more regulation.

Utterly pointless.

Exactly sums it up perfectly

 

[ollie989898]

It won't matter how hard they make legally owning a gun, there will always be the underground gun circles for them to be got from.
The number of instances a legal gun has been used for crime is pretty small I'd think compared to the illegal ones.

That may be true but are you saying the UK has too many firearm related crimes? I think the current situation indicates that our laws at least function.

 

[Still Farming]

Mines in now for renewal now at least 10 wks till expired.Held for more than 10 years !
And yet might have to issue a temporary licence as might not be processed in time .
Devon & Cornwall are severely under staffed I should think.

Doctors take for ever too, and many younger ones will NOT sign anyhow allegedly.

 

[ollie989898]

Doctors take for ever too, and many younger ones will NOT sign anyhow allegedly.

That is wrong in my view. Doctors should be willing and able to sign for this. By refusing to do so they are failing their patient in my view.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Doctors take for ever too, and many younger ones will NOT sign anyhow allegedly.

They're asking now whether GPs should be forced to engage with firearms licensing.

No GP is going to agree to certify that a patient is sound to own a firearm, it's just not feasible. Anyway, they aren't asked to certify that patients are safe to drive cars (which kill far more people every year in the UK).

For comparison, Would YOU be willing to certify that every one of your cows is safe to be in a field with the general public?