New grass leys on stoney ground

[jimfarm.243]

I am wanting to re seed some old grass leys, farm is high up in the cotswolds on very stoney ground.
I’m not sure if ploughing it is the way forward as I don’t want to make the stone situation worse.
My neighbour tried spraying off old ley and direct drilling into it and it was a complete failure. Anyone got any ideas of best way of going about this?
Thanks!

 

[Granite Farmer]

Plough it, cultivate it, hire a stone picker (see example http://foragewagonssouthwest.com/stone-machines.html ). You'll have a good heap of clean stone afterwards.

 

[bumkin]

why not try to improve what you have. first soil test to look for deficiency , if ph is low try basic slag if not give it a good mucking in the autumn

 

[Yale]

Weather,weather and weather.

Picking the right conditions is a start.I’m sure at the moment it’s way too dry.

What about spraying off early spring,a break crop like forage rape to sort the leatherjackets then graze hard with lambs late summer and direct drill grass late summer.

Soon as it’s established either autumn or the next spring spray out any seedling docks etc.

First job ph test.

 

[Barleycorn]

Rob Richmond farms up your way, he will sort you out and find you some good mixtures too if you want

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Your niebours failure is meaningless without the facts
But a few facts. You plough stones will come to the surface along will a lot of weed seeds, seed bed will be puffy and unlevel so you will have to deal with that . Moisture loss is also high .
Direct drilling I have not had a lot of experience with , but the obvious advantages. It retains moisure ,as you are burning the old ley off weed control is better, you already have a firm level seedbedthats stone free so you dont have the cost of making one , choice of drill seems very important as seed needs to have contact with soil to grow and be protected from drying out, very important with a spring re,seed,
As for re seeding atm . Forget it unless you can guarantee a long spell of wetter weather

 

[hally]

You’ll be fine direct drilling just need to follow some simple rules

 

[Derrick Hughes]

You’ll be fine direct drilling just need to follow some simple rules

How long do you recomend after spraying and drilling .
Are the benefits with leaving it longer say a few months ?

 

[hally]

How long do you recomend after spraying and drilling .
Are the benefits with leaving it longer say a few months ?

Probably especially in a very old ley with a second low dose of roundup before drilling. If ley under say 10 years, 5 days is the correct Period. However if times getting on we often drill before we spray. Have drilled a lot of acres over the years with the sprayer in the field with the drill

 

[Kevtherev]

Number of options spray off and Direct drill or disc cultivate a seed bed instead of ploughing.
Pioneer crop such as rape or stubble turnips to eliminate pests and weeds.
Reseeding are the moment is a no go as it’s far too dry.

 

[steveR]

Number of options spray off and Direct drill or disc cultivate a seed bed instead of ploughing.
Pioneer crop such as rape or stubble turnips to eliminate pests and weeds.
Reseeding are the moment is a no go as it’s far too dry.

From your experience Kev, how long is enough for barassica to eliminate Leather Jackets etc if taking out PP?

Got a PP that has died on it's feet this Spring on Clay. Long been a candidate for a reseed or overseed/Patching. I am wondering whether to bite the bullet this Summer if, and and when, we get some rain... SFA on it at the moment!

 

[Agrivator]

Direct drilling can bring some biggish stones to the surface.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Direct drilling can bring some biggish stones to the surface.

Would this bring stone up. Would not the discs ride over them

 

[jimfarm.243]

It won’t be a re seed until the autumn when I’ve taken a hut of hay from the field first. Got plenty of muck to go on it. Just weighing up the costs of stone picker, but if it’s a proper job then it would be worth it. It will be a temp westerwolds mix going in. I’ve tried discing the top and drilling into that but I found it leaves the field very uneven. I’m new to this but want to get it right!

 

[Mur Huwcun]

Direct drilling can bring some biggish stones to the surface.

A few stones you can cope with, a plough can turn grass fields around here to resemble something similar to a quarry!!!

 

[Optimus]

Just done a reseed in a very stoney field.used a karat first to get a seed bed.which didn't bring to much stone up and retained a fair bit of moisture.will see how it goes.

 

[hally]

Direct drilling can bring some biggish stones to the surface.

Depends. Disc drill will not move any stones. Originally many years ago that’s why we bought one, a lot of riverside gravelly fields bloody nightmare to reseed for stones

 

[MrNoo]

Plough it, cultivate it, hire a stone picker (see example http://foragewagonssouthwest.com/stone-machines.html ). You'll have a good heap of clean stone afterwards.

Lol, have you been to the Cotswolds?? I have stone picked here some years ago and it's unreal how much stone is produced, 1000's of tons of the stuff if youre not careful. Is fantastic for making tracks though.
Will see if I can find a picture of one of our fields that is bad.
I would lightly cultivate a few times then seed. Brash will plough, you'll need auto reset and not go too deep, trouble being there will be stones right through the profile so they will be there regardless, you wont "bring up" any more than there are already unless you're running along the limestone when you can hook up some lovely slabs, great for patio paving though!

 

[Kevtherev]

From your experience Kev, how long is enough for barassica to eliminate Leather Jackets etc if taking out PP?

Got a PP that has died on it's feet this Spring on Clay. Long been a candidate for a reseed or overseed/Patching. I am wondering whether to bite the bullet this Summer if, and and when, we get some rain... SFA on it at the moment!

If you put a brassica crop on it soon (weather permitting)
Either rape turnips or some I’m doing green globe turnips as they are more economical than swedes plus the dreaded flea beetle to make things harder.
You should break the crane fly cycle in a 12 month rotation eg swedes/turnips in graze over winter and reseed following spring plus it gives you better weed control.
Lots of options some folks are putting an Italian ryegrass rape mix in for lambs too.

 

[Kevtherev]

Direct drilling can bring some biggish stones to the surface.

Sometimes yes with the NZ tine drills
Many opt for the disc only drills to elimate stone heave.