We're designing the scheme in-house within Defra, in partnership with farmers and other experts; there's likely to be some external consultancy involved evaluating the scheme once it's live, we haven't set the budget for that yet, we will do that as we design and roll out the schemeBoth .
We have to demonstrate value for money in all our spend, we are audited internally and externally and required to demonstrate that we've achieved value for money. (We don't currently have a budget for consultancy associated with the scheme, we're designing it in-house in Defra in partnership with farmers and other experts)@Janet Hughes Defra
I am not sure why a simple question about the DEFRA budget for consultants associated with LNR would require clarification, however both or all and how will value for money in employing said consultants be demonstrated?
care to comment on the press headline above . Hate to say it, but you have really misjudged this, to say the least .We have to demonstrate value for money in all our spend, we are audited internally and externally and required to demonstrate that we've achieved value for money. (We don't currently have a budget for consultancy associated with the scheme, we're designing it in-house in Defra in partnership with farmers and other experts)
Plenty of bedtime reading there, but picking out what I assume is the evidence you refer to with regards to Landscape recovery and nature recovery, this evidence was taken in 2008 so you are basing your scheme on evidence that is 14 years out of date, I wonder how many of the objectives set out then have even got off the ground let alone achieved their goals.I was referring to the 25 Year Environment Plan which includes supporting evidence and sets out detailed analysis and targets around biodiversity, water quality, air quality and water management (amongst other things): https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/25-year-environment-plan
And nobody has surveyed the land here for biodiversity in the last 30 years to my knowledge so our biodiversity could be anywhere on the scale. I accept that all such reports are based on estimates extrapolated from limited datasets but it does seem a weakness. Surely each farm should be assessed where is at now before changing too much?Plenty of bedtime reading there, but picking out what I assume is the evidence you refer to with regards to Landscape recovery and nature recovery, this evidence was taken in 2008 so you are basing your scheme on evidence that is 14 years out of date, I wonder how many of the objectives set out then have even got off the ground let alone achieved their goals.
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We're designing the scheme in-house within Defra, in partnership with farmers and other experts; there's likely to be some external consultancy involved evaluating the scheme once it's live, we haven't set the budget for that yet, we will do that as we design and roll out the scheme
Below is an extract from a DEFRA email received earlier this week.We have to demonstrate value for money in all our spend, we are audited internally and externally and required to demonstrate that we've achieved value for money. (We don't currently have a budget for consultancy associated with the scheme, we're designing it in-house in Defra in partnership with farmers and other experts)
I think that's an appendix listing relevant previous government strategies, not the full list of evidence relating to the environment plan or our new schemes - we're basing scheme design on a range of evidence about what works and based on engagement, trials and piloting with farmers. We're always looking for more people to get involved in shaping the schemes so that they work for farmers, so if you'd like to get involved or have evidence you'd like us to look at please do let me know.Plenty of bedtime reading there, but picking out what I assume is the evidence you refer to with regards to Landscape recovery and nature recovery, this evidence was taken in 2008 so you are basing your scheme on evidence that is 14 years out of date, I wonder how many of the objectives set out then have even got off the ground let alone achieved their goals.
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By the look of it pretty much all of them!!I have a neighbour who works for Deloitte's assessing Government departments. She tells me that some are so shambolic that the people running them have no education or training in the department they are in. When they make a balls up they are simply moved on to another department . How many of that type do you think are in defra making up the new systems?
Yes we do have contractors working in our team alongside permanent staff, like all government departments and many other organisations - can you tell me, what's the concern that's driving your questions, I'm happy to help if I can once I understand where you're coming from (to be absolutely clearly, I'm not trying to be awkward, I'm genuinely seeking to answer your questions in good faith)Below is an extract from a DEFRA email received earlier this week.
from Local Nature recovery: User research sessions.
I took part and the interviewers confirmed they were consultants. There was one interviewer, an observer who asked questions at the end and another taking notes, there would have been a fourth I was advised but he was unavailable. @Janet Hughes Defra you state that you don’t have a budget for consultancy associated with the scheme, presumably these interviewing me weren’t doing it for free so I can only conclude DEFRA has signed a blank cheque.
Incidentally it was clear to me that these consultants didn’t have a clue what managing an all grass farm with grazing livestock was all about, no surprise since the grassland options are not conducive to making any return from livestock.
I’d like to invite you to take part in upcoming research. The research will be held online and last 45-60 minutes. During that time, we will ask some questions about your experience. This will be a conversation and anything we discuss will remain anonymous.
We are looking for insights and solutions for simplifying the scheme to make it less bespoke and still deliver environmental outcomes and ways to make options easier to understand, so that users understand what they are being asked to do. This will help us in defining and developing what option will look like for Local Nature Recovery scheme.
In the session we are exploring your views, experience and potential solutions in these three key areas:
- Options with standardised actions (i.e. mid-tier) versus tailored actions (i.e. higher tier)
- Outcome focused Options versus Action focus Options.
- Guidance – 3 scenarios:
- Detailed aim from a tailored option - not guidance-led (from a higher tier CS)
- Simple aim from a standardised option - partially guidance-led (from mid-tier CS)
As a taxpayer I would like to establish eventually how much taxpayers cash has been blown on a scheme or schemes to replace BPS which supported all grass livestock farms which appears to me to be designed to fail because the take up will be limited to landowners who do not have to rely on making a profit from grazing livestock such as RSPB and assorted Wildlife Trusts.Yes we do have contractors working in our team alongside permanent staff, like all government departments and many other organisations - can you tell me, what's the concern that's driving your questions, I'm happy to help if I can once I understand where you're coming from (to be absolutely clearly, I'm not trying to be awkward, I'm genuinely seeking to answer your questions in good faith)
(edit: accidentally pasted the question and and answered it twice, have deleted one...)
Unfortunately I can’t see us getting the appreciation we deserve!After all these years of pathetic schemes dreamt up by Defra et al, I seriously wish that Defra was scrapped and subsidy gone. It would get rid of all these hanger on so called experts, and we wouldn't be over producing food so we would get a fair living from what we actually produced, politicans have interfered especially EU Cap and we have lost our true meaning.
However I do feel things are changing and maybe just maybe we will get the appreciation that we possibly deserve.
I cannot understand the mentality of DEFRA.@Janet Hughes Defra
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This is the sort of thing that many farmers have to deal with all the time, and the rest of us dread falling foul of. My own BPS was once paid over 18 months late due to a error that was entirely Defra's fault. I was lucky that I had enough cash to hand such it did not cause me any great distress, for many without that cash buffer it could have caused extreme hardship. Is it any wonder we take a jaded view of the platitudes Defra are coming out with regarding ELMS?
Precisely.@Janet Hughes Defra
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This is the sort of thing that many farmers have to deal with all the time, and the rest of us dread falling foul of. My own BPS was once paid over 18 months late due to a error that was entirely Defra's fault. I was lucky that I had enough cash to hand such it did not cause me any great distress, for many without that cash buffer it could have caused extreme hardship. Is it any wonder we take a jaded view of the platitudes Defra are coming out with regarding ELMS?