New information about local nature recovery and landscape recovery

[Huno]

Any civil servant with an ounce of common sense might have asked a practical farmer to proof read these new SFI standards for glaring errors but why would they do that? Natural England knows best i guess??

 

[Grass And Grain]

Hi @Janet Hughes Defra hopefully I'll catch you whilst your posting on here. Would you take a look at the below question, would be interested in what the answer is. Thanks, Steve.

One more question @Janet Hughes Defra please...

You don't get paid for AB15 area/parcel. So enter SFI on the other parcels. Say 100 ha farm, 20ha in AB15 or similar SFI excluded options.

So I enter 80ha into SFI. I do my OM soil test on those land parcels.

Then I rotate my AB15 in year 2 or 3 of the SFI. Guidance says that's fine and the computer system recognises that. I still get paid for 80 ha. Great.

That 20ha which was AB15, but is now growing wheat, and I'm getting SFI payment on it. Do I need to do the soil OM lab tests and soil management plan for that 20ha?

 

[topground]

Ok in that case do please take a look at the standards and also what we've said about controls / inspections - we've built in a lot more flexibility, and are putting in place a fair and proportionate controls regime so taking away your risk of unfair / disproportionate penalties. (I do appreciate this approach needs to be seen to be believed, and understand why farmers might be sceptical of this approach without yet having seen it in operation)

@Janet Hughes Defra
Why would anyone in their right mind sign up to a scheme for grassland where the rewards do not compensate for the lack of flexibility in management according to the seasons and the weather. The rewards do not encourage me to interfere with the permanent pasture on my farm by introducing plant species that have never been grown here. What you might consider to be a fair and proportionate control will change markedly when down to the interpretation of an inspector out to prove a point. Why is there no appeal process available to me when the I disagree with the line the inspector has taken. Why would I trust DEFRA or any of its agencies particularly when there is mention of the involvement of Red Tractor?
Nothing, repeat nothing will persuade me to have a Red Tractor inspector on my property.
Please set out how an inspection would work at various times of the year and how the various standards will be measured and I will respond with the problems in interpretation that will arise.

 

[andybk]

@Janet Hughes Defra sadly alot of farmers are now starting to disagree with the detail your team published this week on SFI standards... it doesn't work at farm level... it is a joke and needs binning along with those that approved it... a 6yr old would have designed a more workable scheme than this...

Not when your being advised by NE rspb etc , they are feathering their own nests

 

[steveR]

We've said you can be in both SFI and private schemes at the same time - why I was curious to understand what the issue is in this particular case

Thanks @Janet Hughes Defra It is the general vagueness as to what will be deemed acceptable, in the copious documentation published on the 30th. If I am incorrect in this view, then I apologise. I need to go back when more time allows and delve into the minutiae of the Standards and the Rules....

How would I check if this apparant conflict, is or isn't a conflict prior to signing up? It will be too late when an Inspector calls....

See below highlighted:

Other funding sources​

You cannot enter land into an SFI standards agreement if you are receiving funding from another source to do similar environmental land management actions on that land.

This includes funding received from:

• energy and water companies

AND

This is only possible if you are not being paid twice for similar environmental land management actions legally required in your SFI standards agreement and the private sector scheme.

You also need to meet the rules and requirements of the private sector scheme, including:

• whether the environmental outcome is additional to what you’re delivering in the SFI standards agreement (‘additionality’)
• verification of the environmental outcomes

SFI is still accessible to you, we just can't pay you twice for the same actions, so for example if we're paying you for winter cover through CS we can't pay you again for the same winter cover through SFI. That would be unfair on others who are only getting paid once.

So, to elaborate a little more if I may please....

I have a biodiversity crop and/or a rotational herbal ley that can be planted in either the Spring or the Autumn, and is being partially funded by a private company to add to biodiversity, help water quality by using minimal herbicides and receives no fertiliser. The crop will also add adding organic matter to my soils,over the time that it is there. It is Direct Drilled.

All the area would in theory meet the following improvement aims, as described in the Standards aims.

• water quality
• climate resilience
• biodiversity

With some tweaking all the area could qualify for Soils Standard at both levels.

Would this land area all qualify for SFI Soils standard when cropped as described? I appreciate that this might need a private chat with one of your colleagues if you prefer. I know I am far from alone in wanting an answer and guidance on this matter, from the private emails I have received recently!

 

[Grass And Grain]

Think you've been tagged a zillion times today @Janet Hughes Defra , so sorry to do so again.

Would you mind taking a look at the question. Link to the post...

Post in thread 'New information about local nature recovery and landscape recovery' https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...ry-and-landscape-recovery.360996/post-8067673

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

Thanks @Janet Hughes Defra It is the general vagueness as to what will be deemed acceptable, in the copious documentation published on the 30th. If I am incorrect in this view, then I apologise. I need to go back when more time allows and delve into the minutiae of the Standards and the Rules....

How would I check if this apparant conflict, is or isn't a conflict prior to signing up? It will be too late when an Inspector calls....

See below highlighted:

Other funding sources​

You cannot enter land into an SFI standards agreement if you are receiving funding from another source to do similar environmental land management actions on that land.

This includes funding received from:

• energy and water companies

AND

This is only possible if you are not being paid twice for similar environmental land management actions legally required in your SFI standards agreement and the private sector scheme.

You also need to meet the rules and requirements of the private sector scheme, including:

• whether the environmental outcome is additional to what you’re delivering in the SFI standards agreement (‘additionality’)
• verification of the environmental outcomes

So, to elaborate a little more if I may please....

I have a biodiversity crop and/or a rotational herbal ley that can be planted in either the Spring or the Autumn, and is being partially funded by a private company to add to biodiversity, help water quality by using minimal herbicides and receives no fertiliser. The crop will also add adding organic matter to my soils,over the time that it is there. It is Direct Drilled.

All the area would in theory meet the following improvement aims, as described in the Standards aims.

• water quality
• climate resilience
• biodiversity

With some tweaking all the area could qualify for Soils Standard at both levels.

Would this land area all qualify for SFI Soils standard when cropped as described? I appreciate that this might need a private chat with one of your colleagues if you prefer. I know I am far from alone in wanting an answer and guidance on this matter, from the private emails I have received recently!

Yes you can be in both your private scheme and SFI on the same land.

I'm afraid some caveats were added into the guidance on this issue by mistake, and we failed to spot them before publication (we are reviewing how that happened to make sure we don't make the same mistake again, and to make absolutely sure there are definitely no other errors). I can see why that was causing confusion - I'm really sorry about that.

It has now been updated, and it says this and only this:

"Private sector schemes​

In 2022, you can enter the same area of land into an SFI standards agreement and a private sector scheme arrangement, such as carbon trading or payments for natural flood management.

The approach to private sector schemes will be reviewed by Defra annually."


It's on this link, here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-an-...-other-funding-schemes#private-sector-schemes

Thanks, and apologies again for the error and the confusion it caused.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

Hi @Janet Hughes Defra hopefully I'll catch you whilst your posting on here. Would you take a look at the below question, would be interested in what the answer is. Thanks, Steve.

One more question @Janet Hughes Defra please...

You don't get paid for AB15 area/parcel. So enter SFI on the other parcels. Say 100 ha farm, 20ha in AB15 or similar SFI excluded options.

So I enter 80ha into SFI. I do my OM soil test on those land parcels.

Then I rotate my AB15 in year 2 or 3 of the SFI. Guidance says that's fine and the computer system recognises that. I still get paid for 80 ha. Great.

That 20ha which was AB15, but is now growing wheat, and I'm getting SFI payment on it. Do I need to do the soil OM lab tests and soil management plan for that 20ha?

Hi sorry I was just checking this out with the team - you would add that land into your agreement once it's no longer covered by the CS option (and take out whatever land is now covered by that option) - you can do that each year through a straightforward process at the same time as you do your annual declaration confirming you've done what was required that year. The requirements of the SFI standard would then apply to that land. I hope that helps?

 

[steveR]

Punishing those that have done the most... i would avoid Groundswell this year as those most disadvantaged will be there!!

Well, it seemed an excellent place to interact between Farmers and some of the Defra wallahs, I appreciated it hugely.

 

[steveR]

Yes you can be in both your private scheme and SFI on the same land.

I'm afraid some caveats were added into the guidance on this issue by mistake, and we failed to spot them before publication (we are reviewing how that happened to make sure we don't make the same mistake again, and to make absolutely sure there are definitely no other errors). I can see why that was causing confusion - I'm really sorry about that.

It has now been updated, and it says this and only this:

"Private sector schemes​

In 2022, you can enter the same area of land into an SFI standards agreement and a private sector scheme arrangement, such as carbon trading or payments for natural flood management.

The approach to private sector schemes will be reviewed by Defra annually."


It's on this link, here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-an-...-other-funding-schemes#private-sector-schemes

Thanks, and apologies again for the error and the confusion it caused.

Thanks Janet, that is clearer.... Co-design in action? Maybe I should have stayed quiet and fought it out on the day with the RPA Inspector....

So zilch for my business at all, in SFI in the initial stage. I supected that this might be the case, but hey ho....

My initial plan last year was to avoid CS and the pain that is the RPA, once my last Agreement expired, and then wait for ELMS to shake down after 3-4 years. So it looks as if that's still the plan.

Enjoy your weekend.

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

Thanks Janet, that is clearer.... Co-design in action? Maybe I should have stayed quiet and fought it out on the day with the RPA Inspector....

So zilch for my business at all, in SFI in the initial stage. I supected that this might be the case, but hey ho....

My initial plan last year was to avoid CS and the pain that is the RPA, once my last Agreement expired, and then wait for ELMS to shake down after 3-4 years. So it looks as if that's still the plan.

Enjoy your weekend.

Hi Steve - why do you say that? Doesn't the clarification mean you are ok to enter into SFI alongside your other schemes?

(Sorry for not following / if I've misunderstood, I am definitely finding out what people mean when they talk about covid brain fog this week!)

 

[steveR]

Hi Steve - why do you say that? Doesn't the clarification mean you are ok to enter into SFI alongside your other schemes?

(Sorry for not following / if I've misunderstood, I am definitely finding out what people mean when they talk about covid brain fog this week!)

Just the opposite from your quote, is my interpretation!

"In 2022, you can enter the same area of land into an SFI standards agreement and a private sector scheme arrangement, such as carbon trading or payments for natural flood management."

I am talking about neither... Rather I am talking about planting of privately funded cropping, to meet Severn Trent's goals. Not Carbon trading or flood management.

TBH, you are better going off for a lie-down and forgetting us lot for a few days. We will still be here next week....

 

[The Seeker]

KISS does not fit in with the civil service mind set primarily because they are not spending their own money and it is not part of the culture of the civil service to have a ‘can do’ attitude.
KISS would not require lots of staff which means lots of managers and career progression to Director level and all that goes with it.
It’s all about the process and to never mind the product and no one is accountable if public money is wasted.
A successful FOI request on the costs of administering SFI etc would make interesting reading
@Janet Hughes Defra

Idd see by that exactly what the NFU should be doing with the coffers ?

 

[Grass And Grain]

Hi sorry I was just checking this out with the team - you would add that land into your agreement once it's no longer covered by the CS option (and take out whatever land is now covered by that option) - you can do that each year through a straightforward process at the same time as you do your annual declaration confirming you've done what was required that year. The requirements of the SFI standard would then apply to that land. I hope that helps?

Thank you Janet, much appreciated.

Not a biggie, but I'll end up doing soil OM samples on all the 100ha of land, even though I only get SFI for 80 at any one time. Think that brings me back to the thinking that AB15 wasn't funding me to do OM tests. Anyways...

I'll also have to think how that works for adding OM to all land in the SFI agreement over the 3 year period, as some of it would only be in for a year or two as it rotates around (I think ).

 

[Janet Hughes Defra]

Just the opposite from your quote, is my interpretation!

"In 2022, you can enter the same area of land into an SFI standards agreement and a private sector scheme arrangement, such as carbon trading or payments for natural flood management."

I am talking about neither... Rather I am talking about planting of privately funded cropping, to meet Severn Trent's goals. Not Carbon trading or flood management.

TBH, you are better going off for a lie-down and forgetting us lot for a few days. We will still be here next week....

Ah right got you - those 2 are just intended as examples, not a restrictive list. You can be in any private scheme alongside SFI on the same parcel.

(I think you are right though - I am going to log out now and come back hopefully firing a bit more fully on all cylinders next week!)

 

[Wombat]

Sorry i cannot see a response to this earlier @Janet Hughes Defra have we worked out if the 70% cover for SFI is "green as in the colour" if so as a heavy land farmer with no till, i have no chance of meeting that requirement if the field has to be 70% green.

70% soil cover yes, stubble and cover crops or stubble plus planted crops. 70% green even with cover crops not a cat in hells chance.

 

[onesiedale]

It seems clear now that the SFI rules are not as straight forward as DEFRA first believed they would be. (no surprise to any of us n this side of the farm gate)
In 5 clear bullet points can anyone make suggestions of what they believe the SFI should look like?
Sensible answers please. DEFRA are sitting on a budget of £2.5b (rough guess there) of money to be distributed to Agriculture through an environmental scheme that starts roll out in June.
Please keep it simple , this has to be a "ladybird book of farming and the environment" for DEFRA staff to learn from.

 

[delilah]

In 5 clear bullet points can anyone make suggestions of what they believe the SFI should look like?

With a nod to Private Eye:
1) £220/Ha on the first 40 Ha of PP.
2) £100/ 100 metres (ie £1000/ Ha) water buffering.
3) £100/ 100 metres hedgerow management
4) er
5) that's it.

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

With a nod to Private Eye:
1) £220/Ha on the first 40 Ha of PP.
2) £100/ 100 metres (ie £1000/ Ha) water buffering.
3) £100/ 100 metres hedgerow management
4) er
5) that's it.

Hedge/trees/domestic dwelling buffers as well

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Hedge/trees/domestic dwelling buffers as well

Careful....

Tree buffers could contradict silvopasture unless they are entirely optional....