New rules self employed LGV drivers

[JP1]

It's LTD drivers I suppose, working for agencies and as stand alone drivers for hire. There's a shortage of drivers to start with due to driver CPC, if you need operator CPC it's going to bump rates right up.

I was told today that if you're self employed you either register as a agency or have to get an operators licence. I wish Google was my friend to find some facts

 

[carbonfibre farmer]

I was told today that if you're self employed you either register as a agency or have to get an operators licence. I wish Google was my friend to find some facts

Is this similar in respect of new tax rules to the problem's the nhs is having with locum staff being their own ltd company or on agency's books re paying stamp/tax?
Seems to be similar happening in my "other" industry where there is a fairly large amount of contract staff (laminators/trimmers/fitters etc) who have a ltd co set up and they the only employee and or director and pay themselves as a dividend so the main composite firm are not employing them directly and neither are the agency.
Think a crack down on it which is obviously catching a few industries.

Might be completely wrong of course!

 

[bovine]

I was told today that if you're self employed you either register as a agency or have to get an operators licence. I wish Google was my friend to find some facts

I looked on the FTA site and my interpretation would be if you have your own business then you do need an operators licence. It does seem the government is cracking down on people using the limited company route to have their cake and eat it. You can't have your own little business and save tax and avoid costs like the operators licence. They want you to go through the payrole and pay more tax. Some people are clearly employees just playing the system.

 

[roscoe erf]

I was told today that there are some VOSA roll out meetings. Would totally foobar the beet campaign around here for a start

Strange that I have regular emails from vosa or the Dvsa as they like to be called now with updates new rules etc and not a mention of this

 

[Courier]

it wont make any difference to large well run outfits,
but it could be a bad thing for small cowboy outfits

A lot of the "large well run outfits" couldn't function without the "small (cowboy?) flexible outfits" as you put it.

We only run up to 3500 kg vans but the head of logistics at the northern RDC of a major DIY chain admits that without our ad-hoc services they would experience major difficulties and fines from the head office because of the inflexibility of being a "large well run outfit".
And we can only offer the service we do because of our reputation and contacts within our sector.
A typical project is 70 pallets worth of goods on promotion which have only just arrived from the other side of the globe to 70 different stores from Perth to Llandudno to Ilford by the end of the current working day at the stores - some at 20:00 and some at 21:00.

Sometimes we need to treble or quadruple our number of vehicles and drivers for this type of one off project.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

A lot of the "large well run outfits" couldn't function without the "small (cowboy?) flexible outfits" as you put it.

We only run up to 3500 kg vans but the head of logistics at the northern RDC of a major DIY chain admits that without our ad-hoc services they would experience major difficulties and fines from the head office because of the inflexibility of being a "large well run outfit".
And we can only offer the service we do because of our reputation and contacts within our sector.
A typical project is 70 pallets worth of goods on promotion which have only just arrived from the other side of the globe to 70 different stores from Perth to Llandudno to Ilford by the end of the current working day at the stores - some at 20:00 and some at 21:00.

Sometimes we need to treble or quadruple our number of vehicles and drivers for this type of one off project.

large and small was maybe the wrong words to use,
but the well run and cowboy was the right words to use, as the well run outfits run the job right, from the vehicles to the staff,
where as the cowboy outfit will and does cut costs at any cost,
with regards to self employed, a look on the gov web site does explain it,

 

[unlacedgecko]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ir35-find-out-if-it-applies

Use the tool on this website. Released by HMRC in March this year. Print a copy of the result and save for your records.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I run my own company and it's a ltd company. So if I want to go and do a bit of driving for extra earnings I have to gain my Operator CPC?

 

[roscoe erf]

I run my own company and it's a ltd company. So if I want to go and do a bit of driving for extra earnings I have to gain my Operator CPC?

No see here
http://transportoperator.co.uk/2016/05/13/hmrc-fires-warning-shot-on-self-employed-drivers/

 

[JP1]

I run my own company and it's a ltd company. So if I want to go and do a bit of driving for extra earnings I have to gain my Operator CPC?

I think they are saying yes in that the HMRC rules say if you cannot get another driver in to cover you you are basically just an employee and you / the client would be liable for PAYE etc

 

[unlacedgecko]

I think they are saying yes in that the HMRC rules say if you cannot get another driver in to cover you you are basically just an employee and you / the client would be liable for PAYE etc

That doesn't make any sense. An O licence is not required to supply drivers. O licence is required by the vehicle operator, not the driver supplier. Otherwise all agencies would require an O licence.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Being, as I am, A Bear Of Very Little Brain.....




I'm all to rubbish with it!

 

[brynseiri]

I was told today that if you're self employed you either register as a agency or have to get an operators licence. I wish Google was my friend to find some facts

Registering as an agency is a piece of cake, its insurance that is the issue by way of cost. I started with an agency just self employed, the gaffer had just got a contract to supply drivers to the poultry factory in Llangefni, he had to do his operators CPC, and insurance was a big cost, but not prohibitive, one risk he had was someone driving whilst disqualified for example, he ran licence checks but there is a sort of interim between arrest and prosecution with a drink drive etc, so someone could slip through the 6 months check unnoticed, so he had to have some sort of professional indemnity insurance policy as well as employers and public liability, however while driving or on customers business, his employees were covered by the customers insurance. If you're a one man band ltd driver, there's no way you can get an OL anyway, the system isn't set up to cater for thousands of OL's issued to blokes who don't own or hire trucks. I'm leaning towards the fact they're wanting to clamp down on the thousands of drivers who've set up as LTD companies to drive freelance for the likes of NFT, DHL etc, there's good wages to be earned, and being a small LTD company you'd pay hardly any tax on earnings as you can obviously put all mileage, meals, clothing, tools, phones etc against the business, draw a modest wage and then a tax free dividend every quarter. HMRC are feeling the pinch, as all of a sudden people who would normally be PAYE are now barely paying tax in comparison. They tightened IR35, but obviously the LTD route is a good loophole, so now they're trying from another angle IMO. Fact is, companies are desperately short of drivers, if you've got a brain and don't mind study, operators CPC is not out of reach at all, so people will still do it. It only means the driver shortage getting worse, and LTD rates going up.

 

[Bruce Almighty]

Registering as an agency is a piece of cake, its insurance that is the issue by way of cost. I started with an agency just self employed, the gaffer had just got a contract to supply drivers to the poultry factory in Llangefni, he had to do his operators CPC, and insurance was a big cost, but not prohibitive, one risk he had was someone driving whilst disqualified for example, he ran licence checks but there is a sort of interim between arrest and prosecution with a drink drive etc, so someone could slip through the 6 months check unnoticed, so he had to have some sort of professional indemnity insurance policy as well as employers and public liability, however while driving or on customers business, his employees were covered by the customers insurance. If you're a one man band ltd driver, there's no way you can get an OL anyway, the system isn't set up to cater for thousands of OL's issued to blokes who don't own or hire trucks. I'm leaning towards the fact they're wanting to clamp down on the thousands of drivers who've set up as LTD companies to drive freelance for the likes of NFT, DHL etc, there's good wages to be earned, and being a small LTD company you'd pay hardly any tax on earnings as you can obviously put all mileage, meals, clothing, tools, phones etc against the business, draw a modest wage and then a tax free dividend every quarter. HMRC are feeling the pinch, as all of a sudden people who would normally be PAYE are now barely paying tax in comparison. They tightened IR35, but obviously the LTD route is a good loophole, so now they're trying from another angle IMO. Fact is, companies are desperately short of drivers, if you've got a brain and don't mind study, operators CPC is not out of reach at all, so people will still do it. It only means the driver shortage getting worse, and LTD rates going up.

I don't think you can get tax free dividends any more ?
Last year it was 10% tax on up to 5000, then higher rate above that

 

[brynseiri]

I don't think you can get tax free dividends any more ?
Last year it was 10% tax on up to 5000, then higher rate above that

Likely you're right, but from experience of being a small company director the way round it is through expenses, our accountant had all sorts of ways to get money out as directors loans with minimal tax.

 

[90hp farming]

Forgive me for being a thicko...........
For those that are primarily farmers but do an odd bit of relief wagon driving - surely there is not more rigmoural on top the joyous CPC training?
please say it doesn`t apply...............

 

[JP1]

Forgive me for being a thicko...........
For those that are primarily farmers but do an odd bit of relief wagon driving - surely there is not more rigmoural on top the joyous CPC training?
please say it doesn`t apply...............

This is my fear with the OP. I think it may do

 

[Dangerous Dan]

Forgive me for being a thicko...........
For those that are primarily farmers but do an odd bit of relief wagon driving - surely there is not more rigmoural on top the joyous CPC training?
please say it doesn`t apply...............

Watching the answers to this very closely. . .