No till second wheat

[Matt77]

I gave up second wheats a good few years ago due to grassweed control, lack of!, thought I'd give it another go as the farm is cleaner and now running a disc direct drill, flooding aside, it looks terrible, what have people learnt with DD second wheat, as I'm now hearing advice along the lines of it doesn't work, needs cultivation. Just hoping to learn people's experiences ta.

 

[Matt77]

The straw was chopped too.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Works really well.

This isn't an easy year.

We never used to be able to do second wheats, now we can

Sounds like you are short of plants, a drill can't solve that problem. I wouldnt have chopped as a starting point, and it won't "solve" a grassweed problem any more than anything else

 

[Two Tone]

Flooding aside, it works fine but chopped straw will not help.
Best to drill 2 weeks earlier that you would normally drill.
Works fine for 2nd white straw crop Winter Barley too, as long as it doesn’t get drowned in the constant wet weather.
Which we find is a far better crop in bad Blackgrass situations.

This Autumn has been an absolute bar-steward though!

 

[Matt77]

Used to use or sell all straw, trying to build the soils back up hence only saving for the cow's and chopping rest, might need to re think that then.

So maybe I'm back to my thinking of end of September drilling for that then, it was in by the 10th of October with a good seed rate of 230kg/ha for that very reason, to try and keep plant count up, same seed on first wheat looks great, apart from the now incredible slug pressure and little I've got that can get out to treat it without sinking.

Plan A was to do winter barley but with a good area already in I thought I'd try and get our wheat area back up, feels like the wrong decision at mo, barley is flying DD.

 

[ollie989898]

I would definitely not write off any method of establishment on the back of the autumn we have just had. You need to examine it over the course of several years. If your crops have completely drowned console yourself with the fact you haven't spent £50 ploughing and tilling the whole lot only to reach the exact same place.

 

[Matt77]

That's the problem, the flooding I can explain, it's the areas that have drained well, like some of the first wheat ground which is looking well, this block just looks to be fading away, same chemistry across everything, granted, those chemicals weren't designed to then get over 200mm on over a fortnight, could be the perfect storm, pre em, rain, chopped straw and slugs

 

[SilliamWhale]

Used to use or sell all straw, trying to build the soils back up hence only saving for the cow's and chopping rest, might need to re think that then.

So maybe I'm back to my thinking of end of September drilling for that then, it was in by the 10th of October with a good seed rate of 230kg/ha for that very reason, to try and keep plant count up, same seed on first wheat looks great, apart from the now incredible slug pressure and little I've got that can get out to treat it without sinking.

Plan A was to do winter barley but with a good area already in I thought I'd try and get our wheat area back up, feels like the wrong decision at mo, barley is flying DD.

Don't worry about keeping all the straw. If you don't till the soil won't need it all anyway. 8/10 times 10th October is a reasonable date

 

[SilliamWhale]

That's the problem, the flooding I can explain, it's the areas that have drained well, like some of the first wheat ground which is looking well, this block just looks to be fading away, same chemistry across everything, granted, those chemicals weren't designed to then get over 200mm on over a fortnight, could be the perfect storm, pre em, rain, chopped straw and slugs

Fading away? Slugs?

 

[Matt77]

Fading away? Slugs?

That's what it feels like, put pellets down spout but need a top up and I don't own a hovercraft

 

[ollie989898]

That's the problem, the flooding I can explain, it's the areas that have drained well, like some of the first wheat ground which is looking well, this block just looks to be fading away, same chemistry across everything, granted, those chemicals weren't designed to then get over 200mm on over a fortnight, could be the perfect storm, pre em, rain, chopped straw and slugs

Don't worry about trying to save the straw, if you just adopted direct drilling you are helping to rebuild the soil. Bed your cows down nice, sell a bit and spread muck. Then drill into it. You'll get better crops and see a definite improvement in your land over the next few years.

 

[Matt77]

I've been strip till since 2017 and already seen benefits, just trying to take another step

 

[SilliamWhale]

That's what it feels like, put pellets down spout but need a top up and I don't own a hovercraft

Keep going on pellets, it won't be like this every year

 

[teslacoils]

Get the barsteward straw off.

 

[Two Tone]

Get the barsteward straw off.

Absolutely!
But make sure you tell staff to keep trailers to tramlines and try not to cart on wet soils.
This has been and continues to be a very awkward year for all crop establishments and we must not be put off by poor or failed establishment results.
We did our best but the weather wouldn’t cooperate. Some will look at DD’d land and say it doesn’t work. But we only think of the bad places, forgetting that there are some quiet good areas that are just fine.
……Unfortunately, it is sod’s law that they are not the ones most visible from the road!

 

[Matt77]

And there's one of my biggest reasons for not selling the straw anymore, field traffic, showed up in the strip till, and even more so with no till, no bale chasers around here, just JCBS, lorries and trailers

 

[Gordon Geko]

I've been strip till since 2017 and already seen benefits, just trying to take another step

Buy a plough ?

 

[Two Tone]

And there's one of my biggest reasons for not selling the straw anymore, field traffic, showed up in the strip till, and even more so with no till, no bale chasers around here, just JCBS, lorries and trailers

But in most years they would be fine as long as a little care and attention prevails.
The thing about DD is that it is a very different mindset and you have to be prepared that a few mistakes will be made in the learning process.

If you cannot accept or are prepared to be ridiculed by die-hard conventional farmer’s, steer clear of DD.
I was one of them once! But I now know how much time, diesel, metal and money I have saved with it all and am prepared to accept the odd cock-up. Especially when during the staged conversion process, the DD established crops mostly out-yielded the conventional ones!

 

[Matt77]

Buy a plough ?

It's still in the shed!

 

[Matt77]

But in most years they would be fine as long as a little care and attention prevails.
The thing about DD is that it is a very different mindset and you have to be prepared that a few mistakes will be made in the learning process.

If you cannot accept or are prepared to be ridiculed by die-hard conventional farmer’s, steer clear of DD.
I was one of them once! But I now know how much time, diesel, metal and money I have saved with it all and am prepared to accept the odd cock-up. Especially when during the staged conversion process, the DD established crops mostly out-yielded the conventional ones!

Yep, also trying to be that person, and always wanting to learn, hence the question on here