Not going to work for nothing

[Hilly]

It is politically acceptable to give out starter grants but not retirement grants ?Those would do more to help the younger generation by making more tenanted land available. In the case of owner occupied land I think it would be a benefit to the whole industry to get the younger generation in. What I am proposing is common sense to me . By not paying sub to
anyone over 65 you would bring fresh blood into the industry much quicker,I am not stopping anyone over 65 farming it is their prerogative just they would get no sub for doing so in an effort to get them to hand over to the next generation.

So you want the government to pay out 65 yearold landowners , that will go down well with the TAX pAYER NOT.

 

[blacksheepcontracting]

500 ewes ran cheaply 800 lambs to sell say 62-63 50k, take 25 for living and leaves 25 for costs , wouldnt be much for rent or mortgage but not everyone has them and if you good a turning rams out and a few ewe lambs for a bit extra ........ skys the limit, see nothing wrong with it myself.

I’m running 200 ewes and selling about 300 lambs and keeping a few for replacements. Total lamb sales don’t pay even 80% of the mortgage without adding my COP to the equation.

Only been here a year and when the pasture is improved I will be able to carry more but this is the lot of a new entrant to the industry.

A viable business would include paying off rent and finance as well as a decent salary. I’d say I have a better margin than most on my lambs but it’s not a truly viable business and may never be when opportunity cost and hours worked are factored. Sadly it seems that there are very few viable businesses in the industry today. Ask a businessmen from the city whether getting into UK ag from scratch would be worth it. Highly unlikely he’d say yes

 

[Highland Mule]

I take orders through the summer for fulfilment in September, and that takes out the initial glut. Then I sell out a bunch as stores, and put the little ones (the £30 stores) onto creep as and when we see fit. I can get a steady stream right through until March that way, which really keeps the average price up. If prime in the mart is beating box prices, I sell there, but the box sales mean I never sell a finished lamb below my floor price.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

On what grounds do you call NZ produce "Inferior"? Because 0.0001% of beef that has received hormones?

Because he was trying to prompt me into "looking silly" again, and collect some likes.

Come off it. Tell everyone about the Farming grant schemes and the money ... otherwise you are going to feel silly later on

The closest I get to beef with who.re-moans is when I log onto "The Farming Forum" for a look at folk having a whinge about the realities of agriculture, after selling out control of it.
Then somehow it is all NZ's fault for not prostituting our values in the same way.

But it isn't "Farming At Gunpoint" and I think the OP has a very valid point, at least in the short term, to minimise risk of a trade hiatus.

But this type of argument that green is actually pink is exactly what kills TFF and forums like it, you just about need to load cached pages from 2016 to see anything new nowadays.

 

[livestock 1]

Because he was trying to prompt me into "looking silly" again, and collect some likes.


The closest I get to beef with lady-moans is when I log onto "The Farming Forum" for a look at folk having a whinge about the realities of agriculture, after selling out control of it.
Then somehow it is all NZ's fault for not prostituting our values in the same way.
View attachment 725008
But it isn't "Farming At Gunpoint" and I think the OP has a very valid point, at least in the short term, to minimise risk of a trade hiatus.

But this type of argument that green is actually pink is exactly what kills TFF and forums like it, you just about need to load cached pages from 2016 to see anything new nowadays.

Horemone free or not is that not the question? Will you answer it?

 

[Hilly]

I’m running 200 ewes and selling about 300 lambs and keeping a few for replacements. Total lamb sales don’t pay even 80% of the mortgage without adding my COP to the equation.

Only been here a year and when the pasture is improved I will be able to carry more but this is the lot of a new entrant to the industry.

A viable business would include paying off rent and finance as well as a decent salary. I’d say I have a better margin than most on my lambs but it’s not a truly viable business and may never be when opportunity cost and hours worked are factored. Sadly it seems that there are very few viable businesses in the industry today. Ask a businessmen from the city whether getting into UK ag from scratch would be worth it. Highly unlikely he’d say yes

Firstly your statement about 300 lambs paying mortgage is like a how long is a bit of string statement, doubt you got a mortgage on the back of a 200 ewe business plan , i had 15 ex stock brokers and 3 dentists standing out side my house on Saturday looking over my farm i wont upset you by repeating what they said.

 

[Hilly]

Because he was trying to prompt me into "looking silly" again, and collect some likes.


The closest I get to beef with lady-moans is when I log onto "The Farming Forum" for a look at folk having a whinge about the realities of agriculture, after selling out control of it.
Then somehow it is all NZ's fault for not prostituting our values in the same way.
View attachment 725008
But it isn't "Farming At Gunpoint" and I think the OP has a very valid point, at least in the short term, to minimise risk of a trade hiatus.

But this type of argument that green is actually pink is exactly what kills TFF and forums like it, you just about need to load cached pages from 2016 to see anything new nowadays.

Hoy you, thats my tff photo you have stole it ! you might take my photo but you will never take our freedom ... oh woops i mean job.

 

[livestock 1]

Hoy you, thats my tff photo you have stole it ! you might take my photo but you will never take our freedom ... oh woops i mean job.

Wish I could put photos on here! I honestly cannot do it

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Horemone free or not is that not the question? Will you answer it?

The processor I worked at had never killed a HGP beef in over 60 years of operation.
Some smaller processors may, because they market beef directly into the US.
But I don't think you can buy growth promotant here anymore, although the ASD forms still have a column to tick if you have.

Do I use it on myself, is that what you meant?

 

[livestock 1]

The processor I worked at had never killed a HGP beef in over 60 years of operation.
Some smaller processors may, because they market beef directly into the US.
But I don't think you can buy growth promotant here anymore, although the ASD forms still have a column to tick if you have.

Do I use it on myself, is that what you meant?

No I’m not putting you in that awkward position. I’m not going to do that

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Hoy you, thats my tff photo you have stole it ! you might take my photo but you will never take our freedom ... oh woops i mean job.

Sorry, mate.
It just seemed appropriate, one moment we should all be proud, and the next it is "someone, please help us"

Hard to keep up, I suppose if you look for problems you see problems, same with opportunity.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

No I’m not putting you in that awkward position. I’m not going to do that

Why not, isn't goading me your main goal?

 

[JD-Kid]

can't recall were I seen it. one of the accountants over here was talking about off farm income ie partner. working off farm in there costings it was about the same income as. running another 1000 ewes
ummmm makes you think
not. all sunshine and lolly pops in NZ
asset rich and cash poor springs to mind. very fast there is some savings in running higher numbers once fixed costs split down over. bigger numbers but it's a fine line at times

 

[livestock 1]

Why not, isn't goading me your main goal?

Haha no that was not my intention

 

[Top Tip.]

In what way do you expect this fresh blood as you call them come into the industry and at what age? Even if a retirement grant is an incentive for the older guy like me to retire, all that would happen is I would retire and sell my farming assets to the highest bidder, and that wont be a spotty faced youth unless he was a lottery winner , the idea falls down if you are farming as a company /partnership and not a sole occupier widowed with no family and there arnt many of them. At what level would you expect the retirement payment to have to be to keep me and mine in the manner to which im accustomed? index linked !! bigger than the current payments I would say. realisically larger units wether a company or a farming family is what will happen wether subs go or not and the only opportunities for non connected youth will be working for them ,sad but true, although there will always be an exception cos 40 odd years ago I started with no acres no farm no parents and no money so it can be done or rather could, another thing that is overlooked in your idea is that todays 65year old is yesterdays 50/55 year old in terms of life expectancy and health. Plus any land /farm that comes up usually ends up with an established business so how do you intend to stop that happening ? sorry ive no intention to p on your fire but its not going to happen a bit like the cc tenancys that used to be a route in

I don’t think any of the obstacles that you put up are insurmountable if the will was there to do so. When you look at the average age of the industry at the moment surely an infusion of youth would be no bad thing especially if it got rid of the slipper farming element. Capping of payments is well up the political agenda at the moment so that is going to scupper a lot of these big farming companies and who knows it may swing the balance of power back to the smaller units.

 

[exmoor dave]

Levy is 60p as far as I’m aware. Sold all lambs off here fat last year apart from 400 around October last year when we were jammed up with sheep. I think it’s around £4 per beast but not sure. Am I going to get moaned at for feeding lambs /cattle now???

Ummm....you've lost me...who's going to moan at you for feeding stock?

I'm LFA and feed everything to finish, so certainly not me.

But yes, 63p per lamb and around £4 per bullock,
so less than 1% on a fat lamb and less then 0.5% on a smallish fat bullock, so I'm just intrigued why you think we are paying "huge" amounts to AHDB?


Oh and would you believe it.... the dasterdly kiwis pay levies too i believe, so thats one area we're not disadvantaged on!

 

[milkloss]

Firstly your statement about 300 lambs paying mortgage is like a how long is a bit of string statement, doubt you got a mortgage on the back of a 200 ewe business plan , i had 15 ex stock brokers and 3 dentists standing out side my house on Saturday looking over my farm i wont upset you by repeating what they said.

Selling up then?

 

[CharcoalWally]

sheep just now are lleyn texel cross. dont think it would market as well plus input costs would be much higher

Are Lleyn Texel crosses really fit to work out in your part of the world @spark_28 ? I've heard a lot of complaints about the Lleyn in the Western Isles and the West Coast.

 

[livestock 1]

Ummm....you've lost me...who's going to moan at you for feeding stock?

I'm LFA and feed everything to finish, so certainly not me.

But yes, 63p per lamb and around £4 per bullock,
so less than 1% on a fat lamb and less then 0.5% on a smallish fat bullock, so I'm just intrigued why you think we are paying "huge" amounts to AHDB?


Oh and would you believe it.... the dasterdly kiwis pay levies too i believe, so thats one area we're not disadvantaged on!

I do sell a fair few. It does add up. Why do AHDB advise their in spec lambs that happen to be less money than out of spec lambs?? Why did AHDB give out sheep numbers available last Christmas and got it so horribly wrong? Then gave out a new set of numbers in the spring without batting an eyelid about the last incorrect figures they had given. I did enjoy selling hoggs at record prices due to AHDBs miscalculation however processors are recouping this money now and stocking up. They do not intend to make the same mistake twice. And I don’t want to upset the Kiwis again but their MLC equivalent pays the producer $4000. I had no intention of telling you this but seeing you mentioned it you have forced me to answer you.

 

[Hilly]

Selling up then?

No chance, they were all retired and all said they wished they had had my way of life regardless of the money they have made and the money i dont make, they all felt a bit sad they had spent so much of their life in the city and are envious of my/our way of life, more to life than money, easy to say mind when you have some if you have none thats not so easy to say at that point everything is about money.