Nul points

[czechmate]

now that is someone that couldn't see the job through

I can't believe just how disappointed in him. All those debates "which ever way the vote goes, I'll still be your prime minister". Laughable - how many hours after the result was certain before he was quitting? Oh, or is that minutes?
Barsteward

 

[rob1]

I can't believe just how disappointed in him. All those debates "which ever way the vote goes, I'll still be your prime minister". Laughable - how many hours after the result was certain before he was quitting? Oh, or is that minutes?
Barsteward

If there is only one thing both sides can agree on its that DC is a sh!t and a spoilt little brat, history will judge him poorly IMO

 

[Old McDonald]

article 50 should have been done the day after the vote.
the longer they wait the more time there is for the vested interests to fudge it up

Imagine for a while that you are the Prime Minister. You are in that position because somebody has to have the job, you cannot think of anybody better than yourself, and your former boss chickened out of having to deal with an extremely complex situation - running the UK which had decided he was wrong in telling them to stay with all those other 27 countries.

Now, you might not particularly like what you have to do, but you have to do it. Get the the UK out of the EU. Nobody has ever done this before. Maybe nobody ever will again. You have nobody that can advise you what is the best plan of action because nobody has the experience.

What do you do in a farming situation when you hit a bit of strife and are not sure what to do next? If you have any sense you take advice from all and sundry and then decide the course of action you will take. Probably put out a question on this forum. Well, there is no forum on How to Exit the EU.

In the meantime you see that all those other 27 (now opponents) are becoming really concerned about the effect of Brexit on their own little piece of power, losing the odd election here and there, protests, opposition parties gaining on them, economies suffering, etc. Would you, really, in all seriousness, take the pressure off them by triggering Art.50? If so you would be foolish and not fit to be PM.

Let them sweat it out for a few months. Even China and Japan, and the mighty USA (Obama "I never said Britain would be at the back of the queue") are all desperate to have Mrs May pull the trigger. Why should she? They are the ones who are suffering from the delay. They are the ones who are losing power. Obama is out in a few weeks anyway.

You have maybe done a wee bit of arm wrestling. Hold your ground until the other bloke cannot push any more and then he is easy. Or, in political circles, use some psychology and wait until the ones in power are panicking because they see they have to get off the gravy train at the next station.

Clever woman Mrs May and I would not want her job.

 

[Pasty]

Imagine for a while that you are the Prime Minister. You are in that position because somebody has to have the job, you cannot think of anybody better than yourself, and your former boss chickened out of having to deal with an extremely complex situation - running the UK which had decided he was wrong in telling them to stay with all those other 27 countries.

Now, you might not particularly like what you have to do, but you have to do it. Get the the UK out of the EU. Nobody has ever done this before. Maybe nobody ever will again. You have nobody that can advise you what is the best plan of action because nobody has the experience.

What do you do in a farming situation when you hit a bit of strife and are not sure what to do next? If you have any sense you take advice from all and sundry and then decide the course of action you will take. Probably put out a question on this forum. Well, there is no forum on How to Exit the EU.

In the meantime you see that all those other 27 (now opponents) are becoming really concerned about the effect of Brexit on their own little piece of power, losing the odd election here and there, protests, opposition parties gaining on them, economies suffering, etc. Would you, really, in all seriousness, take the pressure off them by triggering Art.50? If so you would be foolish and not fit to be PM.

Let them sweat it out for a few months. Even China and Japan, and the mighty USA (Obama "I never said Britain would be at the back of the queue") are all desperate to have Mrs May pull the trigger. Why should she? They are the ones who are suffering from the delay. They are the ones who are losing power. Obama is out in a few weeks anyway.

You have maybe done a wee bit of arm wrestling. Hold your ground until the other bloke cannot push any more and then he is easy. Or, in political circles, use some psychology and wait until the ones in power are panicking because they see they have to get off the gravy train at the next station.

Clever woman Mrs May and I would not want her job.

Bang on there. The best business people I have ever observed are the ones who just sit and do nothing when a deal is on the table. If it is worth anything to the other party, that party will start talking their own price down. It's a human condition.

The minute you set a deadline you have to stick to it or look weak. The UK doesn't need to do anything. We are leaving the EU. When it suits us. It's not a problem for us. We'll let you know when. Cheerio.

 

[Ashtree]

Bang on there. The best business people I have ever observed are the ones who just sit and do nothing when a deal is on the table. If it is worth anything to the other party, that party will start talking their own price down. It's a human condition.

The minute you set a deadline you have to stick to it or look weak. The UK doesn't need to do anything. We are leaving the EU. When it suits us. It's not a problem for us. We'll let you know when. Cheerio.

Such an excellent analysis of what makes up successful decision makers.
You need to get that text book written.

The world waits with baited breath for a comprehensive explanation as to why procrastinators and ditherers make great leaders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pasty]

Such an excellent analysis of what makes up successful decision makers.
You need to get that text book written.

The world waits with baited breath for a comprehensive explanation as to why procrastinators and ditherers make great leaders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Depends on who has the power. I'm not talking for one moment about procrastinating or dithering. Who's chittering about article 50? Your beloved EU is who. Why? Because they are bricking it. They want stability and resolution. That's understandable but the longer they run around talking about Article 50 and we do not much, the more they will tie themselves in knots.

 

[Nithsdale]

You lot think the govt/May are being great leaders/business people over Brexit??

They havnt a clue what to do, the Tory party - as the govt. of UK - had no intentions of leaving the EU, they had no plan, and still have no plan. May is hesitating and effectively dragging her heels because she doesn't want to activate Article 50.

She will leave it as late as possible, so that when her term is up, she can dump the sh#t on someone elses government.

 

[Ashtree]

Depends on who has the power. I'm not talking for one moment about procrastinating or dithering. Who's chittering about article 50? Your beloved EU is who. Why? Because they are bricking it. They want stability and resolution. That's understandable but the longer they run around talking about Article 50 and we do not much, the more they will tie themselves in knots.

Really. The exit negotiations are coming up ... sometime .... nobody seems to know when ........ UK side still trying to figure out a strategy ...... led by a PM who is a remainer by instinct.
In the UK team, you have a cabinet of rookies. A rookie PM, a rookie and undependable foreign secretary and a rookie secretary for exit in D Davis.
In the background you have a rooke team being gathered up from all corners of the globe to make up the UK trade negotiating team going into the future.
Complete amateurs at this game coming up against old pros.

Then on the sidelines you have that old rascal Nigel. Nigel of course has lost his place on the nine o'clock news. Must be very frustrating for such an outstanding statesman.
But don't worry. He will be back with a bang once TM and her team suffer the first little step back in the rough and tumble of the battle once it starts.

Now, take the old "establishment" sharks in Europe. Angela, Hollande (maybe Sarkozy will be back), Junker, ................. hardened veterans one and all.

You reckon they are bricking themselves ...................................

By the way didn't the little upstart PM from the former colony of Australia have the cheek at the G20, to offer to TM that he would send over
a few of his chaps to get the trade negotiating stuff done for UK as he reckoned TM needs all the help she can get. Cheeky basreward.

Then again Leicester City won the Premiership last year. There is hope

 

[Pasty]

Really. The exit negotiations are coming up ... sometime .... nobody seems to know when ........ UK side still trying to figure out a strategy ...... led by a PM who is a remainer by instinct.
In the UK team, you have a cabinet of rookies. A rookie PM, a rookie and undependable foreign secretary and a rookie secretary for exit in D Davis.
In the background you have a rooke team being gathered up from all corners of the globe to make up the UK trade negotiating team going into the future.
Complete amateurs at this game coming up against old pros.

Then on the sidelines you have that old rascal Nigel. Nigel of course has lost his place on the nine o'clock news. Must be very frustrating for such an outstanding statesman.
But don't worry. He will be back with a bang once TM and her team suffer the first little step back in the rough and tumble of the battle once it starts.

Now, take the old "establishment" sharks in Europe. Angela, Hollande (maybe Sarkozy will be back), Junker, ................. hardened veterans one and all.

You reckon they are bricking themselves ...................................

By the way didn't the little upstart PM from the former colony of Australia have the cheek at the G20, to offer to TM that he would send over
a few of his chaps to get the trade negotiating stuff done for UK as he reckoned TM needs all the help she can get. Cheeky basreward.

Then again Leicester City won the Premiership last year. There is hope

You take smugness to a higher level. It will make it harder for you in the end.

 

[Old McDonald]

You lot think the govt/May are being great leaders/business people over Brexit??

They havnt a clue what to do, the Tory party - as the govt. of UK - had no intentions of leaving the EU, they had no plan, and still have no plan

Of course the Tory party did not have a plan. As you yourself state, Cameron had no intentions of leaving the EU, because he was so confident that the populace loved him so much they would all vote to Remain. Why would he have a plan to leave? Why would anyone else in the Party have a plan? Cameron said he was staying on whatever the result? Did you have a plan? Of course not. If Cameron had kept his word you had just about as much chance of becoming PM as anyone else - none. Instead he took the soft option and resigned. How very patriotic! Although maybe it was, because I cannot imagine he would have been able to put together a reasonable exit due to his penchant for sucking up to the Chinese and Obama.

Nobody knows what will happen. It is all guesswork, but one thing is certain, the other EU leaders and their sidekicks are desperate for the UK to trigger the exit button. As are a few of the other leaders around the world. Do you honestly think that a full plan of exit could have been drawn up by Mrs May and her cabinet in the very short time since she became PM? Prior to her appointment, she cannot have known that she was to become PM.

The only person with the possibility of thinking he might become PM in the event of a Brexit vote was Gove. He might have had a plan. You might as well plan to take a trip to the moon as have a plan for Brexit if you are not in a position to make use of either.

Have you ever drawn up a business plan for a new farm you think you might like to have? How long did that take you? You did not have to fight 27 other nations to achieve your aims did you? And the UK is somewhat bigger than a single farm.

Your right to attack the Tory Party is acceptable, but I think a minimum of six months is not too long for the new PM to draw up her plan and a strategy of how to achieve it. In fact, I would prefer she takes a year. There is no rush. The rest of the world is jittery not the May administration.

 

[Ashtree]

You take smugness to a higher level. It will make it harder for you in the end.

You don't seem to appreciate the difference between smugness and reality!
Real smugness is claiming the "we shall invoke article 50 whenever we damn well please" ................ now that's smugness on steroids.

But to be fair TM is not being smug in that respect. She is faced with the reality of the situation.
Nobody knows what Brexit is supposed to be. She has to buy time. She is backed up be a collection of rookie cops in her cabinet.
Crikey ................. Boris going to bat for Britain .................. when you think of the real politicians and statesmen to went before in various governments.
Give me a break.


Now, speaking about rookies ...................... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-he-outlines-plans-in-house-of-a7227441.html

 

[rob1]

Really. The exit negotiations are coming up ... sometime .... nobody seems to know when ........ UK side still trying to figure out a strategy ...... led by a PM who is a remainer by instinct.
In the UK team, you have a cabinet of rookies. A rookie PM, a rookie and undependable foreign secretary and a rookie secretary for exit in D Davis.
In the background you have a rooke team being gathered up from all corners of the globe to make up the UK trade negotiating team going into the future.
Complete amateurs at this game coming up against old pros.

Then on the sidelines you have that old rascal Nigel. Nigel of course has lost his place on the nine o'clock news. Must be very frustrating for such an outstanding statesman.
But don't worry. He will be back with a bang once TM and her team suffer the first little step back in the rough and tumble of the battle once it starts.

Now, take the old "establishment" sharks in Europe. Angela, Hollande (maybe Sarkozy will be back), Junker, ................. hardened veterans one and all.

You reckon they are bricking themselves ...................................

By the way didn't the little upstart PM from the former colony of Australia have the cheek at the G20, to offer to TM that he would send over
a few of his chaps to get the trade negotiating stuff done for UK as he reckoned TM needs all the help she can get. Cheeky basreward.

Then again Leicester City won the Premiership last year. There is hope

You seem to forget that france and germany both have elections next year and its looking pretty likely that both will have a change of leadership, whatever position their current leaders take will be hammered by their opponents so its just as much in their interest not to get started too quickly, as for Junker are you serious he is a complete failure. The germans as pay master will dictate to the rest of the EU how it pans out and they know full well and have been told by their big exporters that they want good access to the uk market,German industry has more to lose than gain by playing silly beggars

 

[Ashtree]

Didn't say Junker was a success or otherwise. I pointed to his experience over time.
German industry more to loose than gain. Let's take that as a given.
UK financial services more to loose than gain. Let's take that as a given.
I believe we are looking at a classic stalemate!
One hell of a fudge will be cobbled up which TM will have to try to sell at home. A tad similar to the package DC brought home from EU.
Welcome Farage back to centre stage and the nine o'clock news. Heckling and snapping as is his innate and pretty much only skill apart from rabble rousing oratory.

Watch this space!!

 

[czechmate]

It makes sense to learn to swim before you jump into the sea

The main thing that bothers me on here and I really hope the powers that be are not thinking the same, is this attitude of "opponents"
The uk and eu and the rest of the world are looking to work together. To put it into a small trading contex, when I meet with the cattle co op I am thinking of sighing up with, I go with an attitude of mutual cooperation and best interests for all. If I went thinking they, my customers, were my opponents, the I don't see how the agreement is going to be satisfactory for anyone?
I don't see the pushing from Europe anyway to rush, in fact, I thought merkel said the opposite. For sure junker is a stirring pain but he is looking out for the best interests of Luxembourg mainly I suppose, to that end if he can panic a fair movement from London to his home then I suppose he is happy

 

[czechmate]

Didn't say Junker was a success or otherwise. I pointed to his experience over time.
German industry more to loose than gain. Let's take that as a given.
UK financial services more to loose than gain. Let's take that as a given.
I believe we are looking at a classic stalemate!
One hell of a fudge will be cobbled up which TM will have to try to sell at home. A tad similar to the package DC brought home from EU.
Welcome Farage back to centre stage and the nine o'clock news. Heckling and snapping as is his innate and pretty much only skill apart from rabble rousing oratory.

Watch this space!!

You still have nine o clock news in Ireland?

I don't see how it's possible there is a solution that isn't "one hell of a fudge" that will please no one

 

[Ashtree]

You still have nine o clock news in Ireland?

I don't see how it's possible there is a solution that isn't "one hell of a fudge" that will please no one

Switzerland of course want's the best of both worlds with the EU. They want the trade on one hand but want to curb the immigration on the other hand.
I see the EU negotiators are rehearsing their lines for the Brexit talks. Hardball all the way http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...igration-hardball-with-switzerland-posen-says

 

[Billhook]

Points based immigration system binned

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...gration-system-australian-style-a7224776.html

Japan getting ready to move banks and company HQs to the EU market.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37270372

No Article 50.

This Brexit thing eh?

Read more ›

Adopt the brace position, folks, here comes the latest Brexit bad news. Employment? Up. Manufacturing and Services? Up, sharply. The pound? It was going down, after all our “experts” prophesied doom, but is now climbing back up again.

What about exports? Very nice, thank you, but we could do with a weaker pound. Number of Japanese car manufacturers who threatened to leave the country who have gone? Zero. Consumer confidence? Weirdly buoyant. New Prime Minister? Stable, resolute and looking smashing in orange. Hate crime? Back to exactly the same level it was before. Naughty, smack-bottom Punishment Budget with £30 billion in tax increases? Disappeared, along with George Osborne. Threat of imminent recession? Er, looks like that was a teeny bit overstated, actually.

May: Brexit means Brexit and we're going to make a success of itPlay!00:54

Unsurprisingly, the majority of British people are feeling pretty chipper following the referendum vote to leave the corrupt, bullying and economically stagnant EU. According to a poll for BBC Radio 5 Live, six out of ten adults in the UK now say they are positive about Britain’s future after Brexit.

But, ooh, wait a minute, not so fast. The BBC’s Brexit Balance reporter, Mick Taking, has managed to track down two people in Dunstable who are very worried.

Here comes Pete, the Lettuce Grower.

Reporter: So, Pete, on a scale of nine to 10, how worried would you say you are about Brexit?

Pete: Er, seven.

Reporter: But it is very worrying, isn’t it, that you won’t be able to recruit a load of Eastern Europeans on less than the minimum wage to live in sub-human conditions and pick your lettuces?

Pete: I was for Romaine, Cos we need the workforce for picking, like. My contact, Miss Lollo Rosso, in Brasov says they don’t want to take the risk hiding 50 pickers in the back of a van no more.

Reporter: Quite. And that could be a very worrying consequence of Brexit. Far fewer illegal migrants. And maybe having to pay British people a living wage to pick lettuces?

Pete: It’s a big worry for me personally, yes.

Reporter: Well, we’ll be back for some more Little Gems from Mike later. I’m joined now by Julie who is worried about the possible fallout from Brexit on her beauty salon. This is a scary time in the lash-extension business, isn’t it, Julie?

'New Prime Minister? Stable, resolute and looking smashing in orange' CREDIT: REUTERS/NICOLAS ASFONRI/POOL/FILE PHOTO

Julie: I’m not worried no more.

Reporter (laughs nervously): Ah, but surely you are worried. With people feeling nervous about spending on luxuries like beauty treatments.

Julie: We’re fully booked till the end of October. Never seen nothing like it. Had to take on two new therapists.

Reporter: Well, that is in itself a worry. People are perhaps so worried that they are spending to forget their troubles. Things are still very uncertain out here in a turbulent Brexit Britain. Back to you in the studio, Sophie.

Sophie (wan smile): Mick will be back with us tomorrow night with more Brexit worries. If you missed it, you can see his special report, ‘EU Must Be Joking: How the UK Took Leave of Its Senses and Ignored Clever People Like Me’ on the BBC iPlayer…”





SIR – Howard Shore (Letters, September 5) says: “Full access to the single market should go hand-in-hand with a contribution to running it.” Why?

In return for access to the single market, we can offer the EU access to our market. As we run a trade deficit with the EU of around £70 billion, we have a strong negotiating position, and therefore payment for our access to the single market should not be necessary. On the other hand, given our trade deficit with the EU, perhaps they should pay for access to our market.

Andy Bebbington
Stone, Staffordshire


SIR – We should not be shy about our negotiating position. The EU relies on us heavily as a trade partner – considerably more than we rely on the EU.

Fears that the City will require some sort of access deal are overblown. If Brussels were to be so stupid as to turn its back on the City, it would be denying member states vital access to the most important financial market in the world.

Nothing in this regard has changed since we thankfully failed to join the euro. The fears about London losing out to parochial markets in Frankfurt and Paris proved to be totally wrong then, for the same reasons they are wrong today.

Alasdair Macleod
Newton Poppleford, Devon


Can you name the men in charge of the EU?

We’ll give you a clue…. there are five in total.

These include the presidents of the European Parliament, European Council, European Commission, European Central Bank and Eurogroup, the informal meeting of financial institutions in the eurozone.

So who are they?

 

[Billhook]

Juncker, he really inspires me with confidence that the future of the EU is in safe hands

 

[Ashtree]

Trade deal reality check right here.
Britain faces long road to post-Brexit trade deals
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKKCN11D1CH

 

[czechmate]

Juncker, he really inspires me with confidence that the future of the EU is in safe hands

As I wrote after one of the many previous times this has been posted, Winston Churchill was known to like a drink or three. His good fortune there was no YouTube?

Don't forget, they are generally more "touchy" on the mainland than we are used to on the island (British isle)