Oil - genuine vs non genuine

[yoki]

Yes but surely a specification is a specification and if a certain manufacturer insists on XYZ as long as the lubrication company produces XYZ should be right

A "specification"as labelled to the consumer is from a predetermined set of international standards.

A "specification" from an equipment manufacturer to someone blending an oil for them can be an exact breakdown of all the components of the oil.

So in that regard a "specification" can mean two very different things.

An "own brand" oil can be sold (as some are) with no declared specification, but in terms of what it's actually made of it will still have a specification.

 

[Sonoftheheir]

pretty sure thurlow nunn standens branded oil is withams. They will happily put that in new masseys. Fendts ect, so it’s clearly good stuff. I’d happily use it.

Last I heard they were.

 

[76masseyman]

A "specification"as labelled to the consumer is from a predetermined set of international standards.

A "specification" from an equipment manufacturer to someone blending an oil for them can be an exact breakdown of all the components of the oil.

So in that regard a "specification" can mean two very different things.

An "own brand" oil can be sold (as some are) with no declared specification, but in terms of what it's actually made of it will still have a specification.

If the product is made by a reputable supplier, who sign up the ATIEL code of conduct, they will then quote the European ACEA and American API specifications. They will also be able to list OEM specifications, and formal approval from those OEM’s.
These approvals will be formal, backed up by test data, product sampling and sample retention as well as industry checks into base oil quality and additive pack supply.
Those that quote ‘deemed to meet’ or meets the specifications of……xyz, and often have out of date and even obsolete specifications quoted are the ones to avoid.

 

[yoki]

If the product is made by a reputable supplier, who sign up the ATIEL code of conduct, they will then quote the European ACEA and American API specifications. They will also be able to list OEM specifications, and formal approval from those OEM’s.
These approvals will be formal, backed up by test data, product sampling and sample retention as well as industry checks into base oil quality and additive pack supply.
Those that quote ‘deemed to meet’ or meets the specifications of……xyz, and often have out of date and even obsolete specifications quoted are the ones to avoid.

While true and accurate, none of that is applicable when an oil company is approached by an equipment manufacturer and asked to product an oil specific to their own requirements, which will then be sold by that manufacturer as being for a specific task as opposed to complying with a particular existing specification.

 

[Dman2]

Was speaking to Morris oil man at Rickerby spring show (Claas dealer)Claas was on Morris lubricants as genuine,but gone on to Total oils ,I asked him if Claas had gone back on to Morris no rickerby are Morris agents now. But claas UK were quite happy with Morris but Claas European (Germany) made them change.

Rickerby`s Bowburn, recommend and sell Q8 oils for Claas tractors
So that`s what we buy

 

[ford 7810]

Rickerby`s Bowburn, recommend and sell Q8 oils for Claas tractors
So that`s what we buy

Told me in Penrith they’ve gone off Q8 it’s to expensive and gone to Morris.so is your claas tractors under warranty and rickerby recommend Q8?

 

[ford 7810]

A "specification"as labelled to the consumer is from a predetermined set of international standards.

A "specification" from an equipment manufacturer to someone blending an oil for them can be an exact breakdown of all the components of the oil.

So in that regard a "specification" can mean two very different things.

An "own brand" oil can be sold (as some are) with no declared specification, but in terms of what it's actually made of it will still have a specification.

I think I see what your saying maybe,I have seen equipment manufacturers, oil drums with there specifications on and other manufacturers specifications also

 

[76masseyman]

While true and accurate, none of that is applicable when an oil company is approached by an equipment manufacturer and asked to product an oil specific to their own requirements, which will then be sold by that manufacturer as being for a specific task as opposed to complying with a particular existing specification.

John Deere did exactly this. They used to put on the barrels of +50 II that this product met the JD specific requirements of JDQ 78X.
They claimed this product could do 750 hrs between drain intervals, anything not meeting JDQ 78X would only do 500 hrs.
Trading standards for lubricants, in Germany contacted Shell, who made it, as to what JDQ 78X was. Was it a specification or a test. If a spec’, then the the details must by law be released, if a test, then the data must by law be released. Shell had no idea, the additive suppliers had nothing, it was purely a made up slogan by JD. They claimed it was an internal benchmark test, but couldn’t back it up.
Hence why you never see it quoted anymore.
Manufacturers could try to have a product made, but I very much doubt the lubricant industry will let it hang around for long.
All lubricants, irrespective of the name on the drum, must quote internationally recognised spec’s, as well as whatever the machinery manufacturers put on, reputable companies can, and will, back up those spec’s with test and approval data.

 

[ford 7810]

John Deere did exactly this. They used to put on the barrels of +50 II that this product met the JD specific requirements of JDQ 78X.
They claimed this product could do 750 hrs between drain intervals, anything not meeting JDQ 78X would only do 500 hrs.
Trading standards for lubricants, in Germany contacted Shell, who made it, as to what JDQ 78X was. Was it a specification or a test. If a spec’, then the the details must by law be released, if a test, then the data must by law be released. Shell had no idea, the additive suppliers had nothing, it was purely a made up slogan by JD.
Hence why you never see it quoted anymore.
Manufacturers could try to have a product made, but I very much doubt the lubricant industry will let it hang around for long.
All lubricants, irrespective of the name on the drum, must quote internationally recognised spec’s, as well as whatever the machinery manufacturers put on, reputable companies can, and will, back up those spec’s with test and approval data.

John Deere. Have used JDQ78X for years it was on the drums for our new 2008 6630 and it wasn’t +50 ll

 

[76masseyman]

You’ll not see it anymore.

 

[76masseyman]

John Deere. Have used JDQ78X for years it was on the drums for our new 2008 6630 and it wasn’t +50 ll

It was April 2019 when the court case against JD was finalised, so would have gone through the +50 era to +50 II

 

[ford 7810]

Ok, was maybe the +50 that was just previous to the 11.

It was April 2019 when the court case against JD was finalised, so would have gone through the +50 era to +50 II

No I’m not disagreeing with you ,John Deere have used there specifications JDQ78X on all the top grade engine oil for years, but they are all different specifications the 6630 was on E7 the newer tractor is on E9 or maybe E11 by now we went off JD oil when it went out off warranty.if I had a old stock of jd engine oil JDQ78X but E7 and used it in the newer tractor what would happen

 

[76masseyman]

No I’m not disagreeing with you ,John Deere have used there specifications JDQ78X on all the top grade engine oil for years, but they are all different specifications the 6630 was on E7 the newer tractor is on E9 or maybe E11 by now we went off JD oil when it went out off warranty.if I had a old stock of jd engine oil JDQ78X but E7 and used it in the newer tractor what would happen

The E7 isn’t suitable for the for the latest generation JD’s with SCR and DPF, so could poison those parts as not a low SAPS oil.

 

[Dman2]

Told me in Penrith they’ve gone off Q8 it’s to expensive and gone to Morris.so is your claas tractors under warranty and rickerby recommend Q8?

Not under warranty, newest is 09 plate
Not bought any for a while so could be Morris now